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Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Hitman – on
Okay so I started to test with various kernel versions, please note i'm on all AMD hardware so the differences might be smaller.

For now i'm putting preliminary tests showing just Available memory, while Free/Cached memory also seems to be affected by caching set in some values so i will have to override them all to be accurate.

Before the desktop loaded:
Code: [Select]
6.7.2-2-cachyos
MemAvailable:   15580160 kB

6.7.1-artix1-1
MemAvailable:   15587780 kB

6.6.13-1-lts
MemAvailable:   15627108 kB

6.1.69.21.realtime1-1-rt-lts
MemAvailable:   15743236 kB

5.15.114-1-lts515
MemAvailable:   15693816 kB

A test with a sliimed down loaded desktop, more kernels and standardized caching values will come soon. It seems fattening up started after 6.6.
6.4.10-artix1-1  my kernel

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #16 –
It might be worth looking at gcc (compiler) versions as well as kernel ones, because newer gcc versions often increase binary size which will increase RAM usage when they are loaded into RAM, even if there have not been increases in the size of the code. Small increases are typical anyway as new features and support are added here and there, either in the code or gcc. Kernel modules can be optionally built in or loaded as required which is set in the kernel config at build time, changes there could have an impact too.

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #17 –
Quote from: oyt – on
I m very sorry to do last system update.  I was very happy before but now when I checked ram usage Im very angry.  I have used many Linux distributions and have never encountered such disgrace. Any idea??
Sorry this is a troll post or comes across as one. "Angry", "Disgrace".
And lots of figures to back up what you are saying. Oh wait..............
How could anyone have "any idea?"

I've got shit loads of ram and I'm glad when the kernel uses it.

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #18 –
Quote from: oyt – on
6.4.10-artix1-1  my kernel
I'll do a downgrade to that too out of curiosity, pretty sure either around 6.3/4 or around 5.19 (right before that rust driver support ofc) it started first to jump in size. Too bad none of these are LTS. 5.10 and 5.4 are though. Below 5.x i have hardware too new for that :)
Quote from: ####### – on
It might be worth looking at gcc (compiler) versions as well as kernel ones
Yes, i have to see how far i can easily downgrade gcc to reach the 2 or so year period. Glibc also but it's easier said than done, maybe i can downgrade two-three major versions before enough programs break. Reason why some distros sware by musl libc.

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #19 –
New more conclusive test with as generic as possible kernels, few seconds after desktop loaded with minimal programs. It did not go exactly as I planned as due to the distro's rolling nature I couldn't downgrade libraries enough to do a second test (gcc not even by a bit, glibc only to the last minor version from 9 months ago with negligeable difference in ram usage).

Notes:
-No 6.2-6.4 kernels boot correctly, have no idea why;
-My testing wasn't completely spot on, so still showing just MemAvailable;
-A 2 year old version of linux-firmware has ~30MB less ram usage, barely above margin of error, maybe on non AMD hardware this difference would be larger to warrant a second test.

Code: [Select]
 6.7.1-artix1-1
MemAvailable:   14457676 kB

6.6.13-1-lts
MemAvailable:   15049412 kB

6.5.1-artix1-1 (downgrade from archive)
MemAvailable:   15017100 kB

6.1.70-1-lts (downgrade from archive)
MemAvailable:   15072752 kB

6.1.8-artix1-1 (downgrade from archive)
MemAvailable:   15097504 kB

6.0.12-artix1-1 (downgrade from archive)
MemAvailable:   15109732 kB

5.19.8-artix1-1 (downgrade from archive)
MemAvailable:   15069548 kB

5.18.14-artix1-1 (downgrade from archive, oldest i could go, kernels below are dedicated lts releases)
MemAvailable:   15151148 kB

5.15.114-1-lts515
MemAvailable:   15211540 kB

5.10.209-1-lts510
MemAvailable:   15388964 kB

5.4.268-1-lts54
MemAvailable:   15393112 kB

4.19.306-1-lts419
(got it to boot but amdgpu won't load; compensated memory usage is a further ~20MB lower)

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #20 –
While many complex projects require a specific GCC version, simpler ones usually build with any GCC from the last decade or two, so you could do some tests on some random things from the AUR. My experience from past testing is that new versions of GCC usually see binary size growing. I think it is probably making more use of growing average HW spec. Say you have a piece of code with 2 possible routes that each have 2 possibilities inside, perhaps it is more optimal to then make 4 routes so you only stop to make an initial choice rather than choosing a route at 2 points, as a vague description of what might happen. It would take more RAM but be faster when running.  Whether that covers the OP's case of huge RAM  usage increase that no-one else has noticed is another matter!  :D
Besides this, there are also a number of GCC options that affect binary size, and strip, which also has options. A debug build would be much larger than a standard one, and one optimized for size rather than performance would be smaller than standard.

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #21 –
Quote
It would take more RAM but be faster when running.  Whether that covers the OP's case of huge RAM  usage increase that no-one else has noticed is another matter!  :D

Yeah exactly, maybe aggressive caching is good even when it's not done in memory pages/inodes/tmpfs stuff that bleeds in used/other common culprits. And of course by all means it's my curiosity, not related neither to hardware neither with our arch upstream or anything else :)

Quote
simpler ones usually build with any GCC from the last decade or two

Dinit complains with a little downgrade and something else did with a bigger one, don't remember.
What i will do is try with some installer images with another init and measure on it's kernel and an older one, after all lts515 is in Artix repos and that's a really nice thing i have to congratulate the devs with.
Or I can "cheat" and try in a VM, although it will be less nuanced than in actual recent hardware.
 

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #22 –
Quote from: gripped – on
Quote from: oyt – on
I m very sorry to do last system update.  I was very happy before but now when I checked ram usage Im very angry.  I have used many Linux distributions and have never encountered such disgrace. Any idea??
Sorry this is a troll post or comes across as one. "Angry", "Disgrace".
And lots of figures to back up what you are saying. Oh wait..............
How could anyone have "any idea?"not a troll. real. Test and think before you write. After the last update, I tried all Artix versions because it is a distribution that I like. runit,s6 was a surprise. I'm not rich. My computer is not powerful, but the light distribution written in the newspaper suddenly changed. I'm glad you are happy but me not so. I'm not using system from fathers money. Best regards. now im on Void Linux

I've got shit loads of ram and I'm glad when the kernel uses it.

Re: Artix base - Increased ram usage

Reply #23 –
Quote from: oyt – on
How could anyone have "any idea?"not a troll. real. Test and think before you write. After the last update, I tried all Artix versions because it is a distribution that I like. runit,s6 was a surprise. I'm not rich. My computer is not powerful, but the light distribution written in the newspaper suddenly changed. I'm glad you are happy but me not so. I'm not using system from fathers money. Best regards. now im on Void Linux
You need to work on your quoting of posts

Ram is thankfully cheap so no handouts were necessary for its purchase.

Enjoy keeping your ram pointlessly empty and unused on Void if that's the case.
Live long and prosper.