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Fresh Install

I thought I would try a fresh install on my intense/pc, http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/intense-pc/ , which I use as a backup server.  I intended to swap it in eventually as my main webserver.  calamares and i did identify my drives and I got it to wipe of the entire backup server ;) and repartition, but then it failed is some python error.  I thought that was weird, so I did a system upgrade with pacman -Syu, which seemed to go alright.  Now however, calamares doesn't start at all.  It can't fine a libboost-python3

It was running manjaro openrc without a problem prior to this.

I see arch has instructions to install by hand with chroot and genfstab et al.  I find it hard to believe this is the best means of installing at this juncture.

Ruben

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #1 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
I thought I would try a fresh install on my intense/pc, http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/intense-pc/ , which I use as a backup server.  I intended to swap it in eventually as my main webserver.  calamares and i did identify my drives and I got it to wipe of the entire backup server ;) and repartition, but then it failed is some python error.  I thought that was weird, so I did a system upgrade with pacman -Syu, which seemed to go alright.  Now however, calamares doesn't start at all.  It can't fine a libboost-python3

It was running manjaro openrc without a problem prior to this.

I see arch has instructions to install by hand with chroot and genfstab et al.  I find it hard to believe this is the best means of installing at this juncture.

Ruben

Very strange as I did a fresh install 2 days ago no errors  using the i3 ISO media    in terminal sudo calamares -d

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #2 –
Quote from: mandog – on
Very strange as I did a fresh install 2 days ago no errors  using the i3 ISO media    in terminal sudo calamares -d

I tried running it with a minimal config.  I have to machines settings set to BIOS compatability mode.  It created files but seems to have failed to make it bootable. 

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #3 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
I tried running it with a minimal config.  I have to machines settings set to BIOS compatability mode.  It created files but seems to have failed to make it bootable. 

BTW - I switched it to uefi and the install took, but I only installed the basic system and now struggle with X11

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #4 –
I just want to say that an install from the iso is not for the faint of heart at this junction.  There are just so many issues, large and small.  Most prominent is that X is not configured out of the box and init.d scripts are not readily available.  I wrote or more like hacked about a few additions in the openrc section.  This is the hardest migration I have had in well over 20 years of a migration, but I have been lucky enough to migrate mostly from SuSE version to the next. 

There seems to be a lot of unneeded complexity in the pam authorization modules, and debugging that stuff is so hard.  The docs for it are barely understandable and there aren't any decent tutorials that I have found.

I am left puzzled with aspects of openrc.  Is it keeping track of cgroups?  Because init scripts that run smooth on systemd's adaptation of mailman, for example, simply don't work on openrc.  I miss Manjaro's polished desktop.

This, for example, is the mailman status with systemd.

Code: [Select]
www:~ # systemctl status mailman
mailman.service - LSB: Starts the mailinglist manager Mailman
   Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/mailman)
   Active: active (running) since Wed 2017-10-04 19:56:20 EDT; 1 day 3h ago
  Process: 5848 ExecStart=/etc/init.d/mailman start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
   CGroup: /system.slice/mailman.service
           ├─5864 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl --quiet --stale-lock-cleanup start
           ├─5865 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5866 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5868 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5869 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5870 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5871 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
           ├─5872 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
           └─5873 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

Warning: Journal has been rotated since unit was started. Log output is incomplete or unavailable.

Also, sshd I can't get the child processes to die with the start-stop-dameon  --- I think that might be to prevent you from disconnecting yourself?

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #5 –
Why sweat with a scientific approach when there is an easy way?
Mailman exists in artix repositories.  Why not have a test installation or even on the live-iso and see how the scripts install it.
If mailman does not work then we have something to deal with.  If it does then you can figure out how you can get yours to run properly.

There are 40000 pkgs in Arch and less than 40000 developers on Artix.

What was it in Manjaro's desktop that was so polished?  I only know about openbox and LXDE and except for pamac and manjaro-settings I haven't seen any difference.  If you are careful with AUR you can use pamac here as well.  But running a commercial grade server and needing a polished desktop on the same machine is a rare blend. 

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #6 –
There may also be references in running mailman in Gentoo that may help you.

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #7 –
Quote from: fungalnet – on
There may also be references in running mailman in Gentoo that may help you.

no it is not helpful.  I think I posted that somewhere. It doesn't even use start-stop-daemon.  I think I fixed this through and posted the working init.d script somewhere here.  I was using make-pidfile

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #8 –
Quote from: fungalnet – on
Why sweat with a scientific approach when there is an easy way?

There are all kinds of reasons but the most obviously one is that the stock package doesn't perform as I want it to AND there are some nasty dependencies including Dajango.  Regardless thought, I think I did use it.

Quote
Mailman exists in artix repositories.  Why not have a test installation or even on the live-iso and see how the scripts install it.
If mailman does not work then we have something to deal with.  If it does then you can figure out how you can get yours to run properly.

I have existing mailing lists with a decent amount of custom programming about those lists.  I can't just pull and accept default installations that are a blank page.

Quote
There are 40000 pkgs in Arch and less than 40000 developers on Artix.

What was it in Manjaro's desktop that was so polished?  I only know about openbox and LXDE and except for pamac and manjaro-settings I haven't seen any difference.  If you are careful with AUR you can use pamac here as well.  But running a commercial grade server and needing a polished desktop on the same machine is a rare blend. 

Your kidding me right?  Atrix'es x.org didn't work out of the box from the iso.  I don't want to have a flame war about distros.  If you think Artix's desktop is as polished as Manjoro, enjoy.

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #9 –
No I wasn't teasing you, I just had a different experience and wanted to know what aspect you found more polished in Manjaro.
Manjaro had one hell of a good pkg developer for LXDE, which was really polished, but it worked well on Artix too.  Different desktops, different issues and experiences, and also different machines different issues.
While testing things out I installed Artix with only the core pieces to be able to boot to console.  It only took minutes to install X, sddm, openbox, and it run first try.  I tried the same thing a little while ago with Devuan-OpenRC (a fork/project by the people who made refracta).  Console run fine.  I spend nearly a whole weekend and couldn't get anything on X no matter what I tried.  I just read someone else trying it and it built fine.??

But then between kernels and X on Artix something isn't right.  Nothing in 4.13-4.14 wants to run on my machine.  It freezes everything up, no console, nothing, just a frozen black screen.  Caps lock, num-lock lights will not respond.  If I unplug the mouse and plug it back there is no light.  This means a dead frozen system.
The only traces I ever find is on the rc log when it reboots it finds things not being shutdown properly and recovers what it can.
Nothing else.
Linux-lts is about the only thing running reliably I think, don't know why.  I run 4.13 on Devuan borrowed from Debian, it run like an ace.

PS {edit 10/22}  All problems with kernels 4.13. 4.14 have gone away without diagnosing the problem.  Both -ck and -zen work now on my machine.  I am editing this incase someone is searching and finding old information that no longer is valid. 

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #10 –
If you follow the Manjaro developement mailing list, they spend a lot of time with package managment and their updates and modifications seem to go at a torrid pace.  They were way ahead of the curve from the opensuse guys, and the packages are always based on the newest releases.  And distro would be hard pressed to accomplish what Phil and Company do there.

I can't get X to run at all.  The only reason my workstations X is running is because it migrated from Manjaro, and FWIW, I use windowmaker.  It the workstation was a pure Artix install, I would be very fustrated right now. 

I expect things to change and get more stable.  I'm not that found of Debian or Devuan but people are allowed their own space without my judgments ;)

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #11 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
[snip...] Now however, calamares doesn't start at all.  It can't fine a libboost-python3
I'm also frustrated trying to install from the rolling base iso.  I also had the libboost-python3 error, and it was a version issue.  Calamares wants one version older than what is available.  I fixed that by just creating a symlink.
However, neither calalmares nor xorg-server seem to be available in the iso, so I've had to manually install lots of stuff and I still don't have calamares actually running yet.  I suppose I can go the chroot method, but I really hope it doesn't become necessary.
 

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #12 –
Quote from: gentermnl – on
I'm also frustrated trying to install from the rolling base iso.  I also had the libboost-python3 error, and it was a version issue.  Calamares wants one version older than what is available.  I fixed that by just creating a symlink.
However, neither calalmares nor xorg-server seem to be available in the iso, so I've had to manually install lots of stuff and I still don't have calamares actually running yet.  I suppose I can go the chroot method, but I really hope it doesn't become necessary.

This very strange I did a install last Saturday using the i3 iso no problems what so ever and yes xorg is their in all its glory as for calamares call it up from the terminal sudo calamares   -d  is what I used you don't have to install i3 its just a lot lighter, you can install anything, make sure you expand all the boxes a choose what to install it is a little confusing to some users mind you. but it does install to a working system.

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #13 –
I finally realized that the base iso is really not intended for doing a graphic install, but is only good for a manual chroot install.  I also thought I had seen reference to a command line use of calamares, but now wonder if I just imagined it.
I did end up using the i3 iso, and did get a working system (without the libbost error from the base iso).  I did get the machineid error the first time through, and I've already forgotten the exact reason, but it was something I omitted in the partitioning scheme.  I also installed a fairly minimal system with calamares and then started adding other stuff once booted into the new system.  I'll post separately about continuing problems with that install.
One issue - depending on how you booted the iso, you might need "sudo -E calamares -d" because without the -E I was getting errors which I think were because X was running as artix, but calamares was trying to run as root.

Re: Fresh Install

Reply #14 –
Quote from: gentermnl – on
I finally realized that the base iso is really not intended for doing a graphic install, but is only good for a manual chroot install.  I also thought I had seen reference to a command line use of calamares, but now wonder if I just imagined it.
I did end up using the i3 iso, and did get a working system (without the libbost error from the base iso).  I did get the machineid error the first time through, and I've already forgotten the exact reason, but it was something I omitted in the partitioning scheme.  I also installed a fairly minimal system with calamares and then started adding other stuff once booted into the new system.  I'll post separately about continuing problems with that install.
One issue - depending on how you booted the iso, you might need "sudo -E calamares -d" because without the -E I was getting errors which I think were because X was running as artix, but calamares was trying to run as root.

I used the installer to the minimum degree possible and after the root system cam up, I did the rest of the install manually with pacman.  It is a tied and true method for diificult installers and Calamarie is a real problem.