General Category => Other distros => Topic started by: replabrobin on 23 January 2025, 12:25:37
Title: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: replabrobin on 23 January 2025, 12:25:37
Chimera linux (https://chimera-linux.org/) is systemd free using elogind/dinit, but is mostly bsed on BSD userland (I think) see Chimera Linux works toward a simplified desktop (https://lwn.net/Articles/1004544/).
Not sure I like this in the article
Quote
""the so-called 'systemd-free community', which tends to spread a lot of misconceptions and frankly deranged opinions that [end] up hurting any sort of positive effort.""
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: gripped on 23 January 2025, 14:14:30
""the so-called 'systemd-free community', which tends to spread a lot of misconceptions and frankly deranged opinions that [end] up hurting any sort of positive effort.""
I've come across this before and took slight issue with the paragraph that comes from.. The less abridged version from https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-projects-take-on-systemd
Quote
Another side of the coin is the so-called “systemd-free community”, which tends to spread a lot of misconceptions and frankly deranged opinions that end up hurting any sort of positive effort. Chimera as a project denounces such people, and is explicitly not a part of this community. Such people should also not view Chimera as some sort of haven, because it is not. The project is explicitly anti-elitist and aims to find constructive solutions.
"So-called" because no such community actually exists except in the sense of "Distros that don't use systemd, or offer a choice not to". "The project is explicitly anti-elitist". But derides the rest of systemd-free community (which they are part of no matter the disclaimer) as deranged nutters who they are better than. Which is sort of the definition of elitism.
Overall it looks really interesting but the holier than thou stuff seems unnecessary?
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: phoenix_king_rus on 23 January 2025, 15:22:31
AFAIK the author of chimera is the same person who is primary dinit developer and is has account on this forum
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: n00b on 23 January 2025, 15:27:29
I'll just leave this here.
I asked a question in #chimera-linux about turnstile. FWIW the integration work is to add a few small changes detailed here. https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,6929.msg45684.html#msg45684
10:37 PM <n00b> https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,7603.msg45624.html#msg45624 is where I was told about it but I may misunderstand 10:55 PM <•q66> n00b: looks like an artix problem and my level of care about artix problems is very low so i will not check deeper 10:58 PM <n00b> n00b well thank you for your time q66 11:07 PM <•q66> n00b: considering the number of times anyone from your community ever reached out to me to work on proper integration rather than working on their own half broken stuff was roughly zero, you can't really blame me for that i can't be expected to put time into that kind of stuff when i get absolutely nothing out of it 11:34 PM <natthias[m]> org.matrix:natthias n00b: artix doesn't have graphical service support in turnstile 11:34 PM <deathmist> or rather they haven't configured any(?) of their 10 or whatever init systems to properly deal with that. dinit-chimera has what's used here and it works it needs integration work, turnstile doesn't magically make other inits rival systemd user services Friday, January 3rd, 2025 1:10 AM <n00b> n00b thanks natthias[m] and deathmist.
AFAIK the author of chimera is the same person who is primary dinit developer and is has account on this forum
The dinit developer is a different person and not related to chimera.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: kiblaster on 23 January 2025, 17:55:11
Interesting, that they are planning to replace elogind with something. And they are making turnstile: https://github.com/chimera-linux/turnstile.
There is another distro that it's not using any systemd component, maybe not sure surely, but it still not ready https://os.ewe.moe/about. It is another non-GNU distro like Chimera.
Not nice that Chimera calls people that do not want to use system deranged nuts. I remember somebody saying "no-systemd nuts" in the chat.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: cat herders of linux on 24 January 2025, 16:04:42
I had used chimera for awhile and they derided artic for using broken scripts and patchwork nonsense to get the system running. They didn't like me talking and blocked me and my opinion because it wasn't theirs. I wasn't rude. I spoke plainly and they refused to allow me to even get support for issues I was having and started name calling insults. Elitist is a good word for how they behaved toward me there. But really I don't see the point in any case about coming here and talking down about them even if it is true. Just makes us no better then the folks we complaining about.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: replabrobin on 24 January 2025, 16:39:39
The elite almost always claim not to be elitist
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: n00b on 24 January 2025, 18:13:42
I don't know what he, that little man who creates Chimera Linux, thinks of himself. Maybe he's a tree, maybe he's a dog, or maybe he thinks of himself as a cow. I don't care and I don't care. But his views, written on the official website, say a lot.
Quote
Specific examples of things considered harmful and not welcome:
Far-right and adjacent movements, tankies, putinists and other equivalent authoritarian chuddery Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Complaining about SJWs
So, let him go to hell (although the product he created is definitely good).
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: cat herders of linux on 27 January 2025, 18:29:29
I don't know what he, that little man who creates Chimera Linux, thinks of himself. Maybe he's a tree, maybe he's a dog, or maybe he thinks of himself as a cow. I don't care and I don't care. But his views, written on the official website, say a lot.
Quote
Specific examples of things considered harmful and not welcome:
Far-right and adjacent movements, tankies, putinists and other equivalent authoritarian chuddery Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Complaining about SJWs
So, let him go to hell (although the product he created is definitely good).
Huh. So telling him how much i enjoyed watching SDA Camp meeting with Dr Conrad Vine on chimera linux didn't go over well with him then? Well that explains a lot.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: n00b on 27 January 2025, 21:28:06
Specific examples of things considered harmful and not welcome:
Far-right and adjacent movements, tankies, putinists and other equivalent authoritarian chuddery Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. Complaining about SJWs
So, let him go to hell (although the product he created is definitely good).
meh, sounds like someone I can get along with. Remember, always punch the NAZI!
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: gripped on 27 January 2025, 22:45:11
Not quite Godwin's law but close. This thread should take up the resting position of a Norwegian Blue.
I came here for a disagreement.
Firstly, the Norwegian Blue does not exist. so it's resting position is non nonsensical. 8]
Secondly, Godwin's is about the devolution, and comparing to. Hardly similar to wise moral advice.
Poe's law was made for these guys
BAH! You havent lived until you shaved your legs with occam's razor
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: replabrobin on 28 January 2025, 09:29:08
According to some facebook post reported at tomshardware, here (https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/facebook-flags-linux-topics-as-cybersecurity-threats-posts-and-users-being-blocked) we are all security risks for discussing linux.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: cat herders of linux on 28 January 2025, 11:35:31
And malware... And so I might assert systemd is malware???? So we should be safe
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: gripped on 28 January 2025, 13:49:32
Firstly, the Norwegian Blue does not exist. so it's resting position is non nonsensical. 8]
Wasn't that the point? They are all deceased, bereft of life, pushing up Daisies. But they did exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopsitta. Scientists say so. And I'm not one to argue with science ;)
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: Ogis on 28 January 2025, 15:28:29
So, let him go to hell (although the product he created is definitely good).
meh, sounds like someone I can get along with. Remember, always punch the NAZI!
I agree with that. That's true, but equating the leader of a country that defeated fascism and Nazism with fascists is not only absurd. It smells to me like the bad smell of double standards practiced in the speeches of today's Western political "elite", where white is black, where lies is truth, where war is a peace, and where ignorance is strength.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: nous on 28 January 2025, 19:49:10
This is not the place to advocate physical violence against anyone, regardless of nationality, political affiliation, religion or any other distinguishing trait. Not even against Poettering.
Keep it technical or threads will be locked and posts will be deleted.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: n00b on 28 January 2025, 20:51:58
meh, sounds like someone I can get along with. Remember, always punch the NAZI!
... but equating the leader of a country that defeated fascism and Nazism with fascists is not only absurd. It smells to me like the bad smell of double standards practiced in the speeches of today's Western political "elite", where white is black, where lies is truth, where war is a peace, and where ignorance is strength.
This is not the place to advocate physical violence against anyone, regardless of nationality, political affiliation, religion or any other distinguishing trait. Not even against Poettering.
Keep it technical or threads will be locked and posts will be deleted.
I totally agree. Except... Is it ok to advocate violence against the violent? Is that not just fair play? Of course this assumes the premise.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: nous on 29 January 2025, 13:46:21
Outside this forum everyone can do whatever they want, for all I care. This place is for technical discussions only, or, at most, political implications of software/hardware issues. No advocacy or endorsement of violence whatsoever shall be tolerated, there are more suitable (and non-virtual) spaces for such activities.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: letkan on 04 March 2025, 10:23:20
Here's my 2 cents about Chimera which I installed and spent some time with it. On the positive side: the documentation is well written though kind of minimal (I started with the minimal install) and after 2 days of figuring out what packages I need for a basic Wayland desktop, I got everything working and the experience is no different then Artix dinit. On the negative side: by comparison to Artix/Arch the number of packages is very limited and the naming of existing packages was very confusing which is why it took me so long to be able to install a basic functional desktop. As for extra documentation and help, almost non existent and posting on github, we sow how helpful that was. Bottom line, novelty factor aside...
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: capezotte on 05 March 2025, 04:41:55
My 2 cents on Chimera are, I want to like it, but I worry about long-term direction.
Their goal of using an alternative userland while rivaling or surpassing the user friendliness of the classic desktop distros like Ubuntu or Fedora, and their work on building powerful and portable (distro-, init-, sometimes kernel- agnostic) plumbing for that goal is awesome, and I like to keep tabs on it for this reason. Some pieces from Chimera even found their way into one of my old Gentoo experiments.
I'm also curious about what'll happen if they actually try to get big name systemd "sellers" like GNOME to adopt their libraries instead of using the systemd API directly.
However, I don't like that KISS design is explicitly not a goal of theirs, and some of the new stuff they're creating needlessly apes systemd's SPOFy designs -- e. g. one of their mid-to-long term goals is cron in PID 1. It admittedly only affects you if you care about how the software works under the hood, but if you didn't, you probably wouldn't use a non-systemd distro in the first place.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: cat herders of linux on 08 March 2025, 14:03:26
My 2 cents on Chimera are, I want to like it, but I worry about long-term direction.
Their goal of using an alternative userland while rivaling or surpassing the user friendliness of the classic desktop distros like Ubuntu or Fedora, and their work on building powerful and portable (distro-, init-, sometimes kernel- agnostic) plumbing for that goal is awesome, and I like to keep tabs on it for this reason. Some pieces from Chimera even found their way into one of my old Gentoo experiments.
I'm also curious about what'll happen if they actually try to get big name systemd "sellers" like GNOME to adopt their libraries instead of using the systemd API directly.
However, I don't like that KISS design is explicitly not a goal of theirs, and some of the new stuff they're creating needlessly apes systemd's SPOFy designs -- e. g. one of their mid-to-long term goals is cron in PID 1. It admittedly only affects you if you care about how the software works under the hood, but if you didn't, you probably wouldn't use a non-systemd distro in the first place.
so its like that time the king of england in protest to the catholic church created a new church with the king of enland as the head but only succeded in recreating the catholic system he was protesting against? Yah i dont see the point of what they are doing unless they are trying to bring systemd to bsd. that's my suspicion but it's best not to gossip about something i can't prove.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: gripped on 08 March 2025, 15:58:09
so its like that time the king of england in protest to the catholic church created a new church with the king of enland as the head but only succeded in recreating the catholic system he was protesting against?
It wasn't a protest against Catholic system? Henry VIII wanted to divorce his first wife. The pope wouldn't let him. So he split the English Church off, made himself the head of it, and granted himself his divorce. Untold thousands of both Catholics and Protestants in England suffered horribly in the years that followed due to his actions. But it was purely Henry VIII saying "No one's telling me what to do, I'm the King"
He later realised it was far simpler to just kill unwanted wives or claim the marriage was void due to lack of consummation. No divorce necessary. As analogies go yours was not up there with the best imho. You are right though that the Anglican church is an almost exact mirror image of the Catholic church.
Title: Re: Another systemd-free distro
Post by: cat herders of linux on 09 March 2025, 23:28:19
so its like that time the king of england in protest to the catholic church created a new church with the king of enland as the head but only succeded in recreating the catholic system he was protesting against?
It wasn't a protest against Catholic system? Henry VIII wanted to divorce his first wife. The pope wouldn't let him. So he split the English Church off, made himself the head of it, and granted himself his divorce. Untold thousands of both Catholics and Protestants in England suffered horribly in the years that followed due to his actions. But it was purely Henry VIII saying "No one's telling me what to do, I'm the King"
He later realised it was far simpler to just kill unwanted wives or claim the marriage was void due to lack of consummation. No divorce necessary. As analogies go yours was not up there with the best imho. You are right though that the Anglican church is an almost exact mirror image of the Catholic church.
yes, i am well aware of all those facts. foir brevity's sake i simplified the argument. and yes it is easier to claim no consumation or just kill them out right. who's gonna go against the king and call him a liar?