Artix Linux => Applications & Software => Topic started by: jackie777 on 11 July 2025, 19:49:04
Title: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: jackie777 on 11 July 2025, 19:49:04
Is there anybody use libre kernel in artix linux because im using linux-libre-rt-lts its mantain by Free Software Foundation Latin America, The reason why i like libre kernel because its 100% free software theres no binary blobs no drm and its not mantain by Linus Torvalds or if you want to Escape from linux foundation use libre kernel.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 11 July 2025, 22:41:22
The reason why i like libre kernel because its 100% open source
The Jargon is usually that it is 100% Free Software...
in for a pound, in for a penny
Binary blobs are free but not open source, I think OP said correct thing.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: Worm_Jim on 12 July 2025, 05:29:56
No, I don't use it because all the statements about the Linux kernel using blobs (code objects distributed only in binary form without sources) are lies.
After such lies, I am skeptical and distrustful of the words from: GNU/Debian/linux-libre projects and Richard Stallman himself.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: Pragma Once on 12 July 2025, 10:41:26
The Jargon is usually that it is 100% Free Software...
in for a pound, in for a penny
Binary blobs are free but not open source, I think OP said correct thing.
"Linux, the kernel developed and distributed by Linus Torvalds et al, contains non-Free Software, i.e., software that does not respect your essential freedoms, and it induces you to install additional non-Free Software that it doesn't contain. Even after allegedly moving all firmware to a separate project as of release 4.14, Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code." https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: dpx on 12 July 2025, 12:46:10
Binary blobs are free but not open source, I think OP said correct thing.
"Linux, the kernel developed and distributed by Linus Torvalds et al, contains non-Free Software, i.e., software that does not respect your essential freedoms, and it induces you to install additional non-Free Software that it doesn't contain. Even after allegedly moving all firmware to a separate project as of release 4.14, Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code." https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/
Thanks. Do they have example to illustrate "non-Free firmware disguised as source code."? I am aware of binary blobs but didn't know the rest (assuming they have good example).
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: Pragma Once on 13 July 2025, 12:18:42
"Linux, the kernel developed and distributed by Linus Torvalds et al, contains non-Free Software, i.e., software that does not respect your essential freedoms, and it induces you to install additional non-Free Software that it doesn't contain. Even after allegedly moving all firmware to a separate project as of release 4.14, Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code." https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/
Thanks. Do they have example to illustrate "non-Free firmware disguised as source code."? I am aware of binary blobs but didn't know the rest (assuming they have good example).
Just look at this: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/wireless/realtek/rtw88/rtw8814a_table.c?h=v6.15.6 Or any _table.c file. It's proprietary firmware encoded as massive C arrays.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: dpx on 13 July 2025, 14:10:57
Thanks. Do they have example to illustrate "non-Free firmware disguised as source code."? I am aware of binary blobs but didn't know the rest (assuming they have good example).
Just look at this: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux.git/tree/drivers/net/wireless/realtek/rtw88/rtw8814a_table.c?h=v6.15.6 Or any _table.c file. It's proprietary firmware encoded as massive C arrays.
Yes but those are drivers binary blobs, we agree they are shady but sometimes you can't do without them. They probably end in linux-firmware anyway?
Their site says "GNU Linux-libre is a project to maintain and publish 100% Free distributions of Linux, suitable for use in Free System Distributions, removing software that is included without source code, with obfuscated or obscured source code, under non-Free Software licenses, that do not permit you to change the software so that it does what you wish, and that induces or requires you to install additional pieces of non-Free Software." so I am curious is there example outside of drivers that fits "non-Free software licenses" or contains "obfuscated or obscured source code".
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: kixik on 24 July 2025, 20:08:29
Even on Guix (https://guix.gnu.org) which uses linux-libre of course, there's a way to install just the binary blobs you need to make your hardware work, see the nonGuix (https://gitlab.com/nonguix/nonguix) repo, notice the Guile (https://www.gnu.org/software/guile) configs outlined on the nonGuix repo, and there recipes and easier Guix ways practical guides such the systemcrafters one (https://wiki.systemcrafters.net/guix/nonguix-installation-guide).
I believe if packaging and using such drivers on any distro, it wouldn't be too complex to incorporate linux-libre on them. That would be made even easier by adding some tools that would outlined what hardware is missing firmware binary blobs and which firmware binary blob in particular. I don't see a reason not to able to get systems with just the minimal required firmware. Linux itself has attempted some things, but they fall short compared with what linux-libre does.
Of course there's manual intervention on users. A way to introduce the notion to users, besides having the right wikies, would be to include guides on installing first plain linux, finding all requirements 2nd, then replace linux with linux-libre plus all requirements. Then a next step would be introducing basic (no need for full DEs/WMs) ISO linux-libre installer providing a specific wiki on how to deal with it, and see how it goes.
Besides the user intervention, there's additional work on packagers of course, so that packages are available for the binary blobs firmware. This of course is extra work. And there's a minimal delay between linux and linux-libre releases, which some people might claim is a security feature, but that's really non sense at least to me, since the difference is days, vs. non rolling-release distros which some times take more than that to back port security fixes... At any rate, it's possible, requires additional effort. Some might consider it worth it, counting myself, most probably don't care and would prefer to avoid the burden altogether.
As a user one can try it without the help from the distro BTW, for example AUR already offers linux-libre (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre) and several companions, though not sure if linux-libre-firmware (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre-firmware) covers for free software firmware only, or if it includes a whole bunch of non free software firmware. I haven't taken the time to explore, :( but I hope eventually, at some point, I'll be able to take the time and explore linux-libre. Of course if the distro is oriented to linux-libre and offers way with minimal non free stuff to get the hardware working, that's much better.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: jackie777 on 24 July 2025, 21:22:32
Even on Guix (https://guix.gnu.org) which uses linux-libre of course, there's a way to install just the binary blobs you need to make your hardware work, see the nonGuix (https://gitlab.com/nonguix/nonguix) repo, notice the Guile (https://www.gnu.org/software/guile) configs outlined on the nonGuix repo, and there recipes and easier Guix ways practical guides such the systemcrafters one (https://wiki.systemcrafters.net/guix/nonguix-installation-guide).
I believe if packaging and using such drivers on any distro, it wouldn't be too complex to incorporate linux-libre on them. That would be made even easier by adding some tools that would outlined what hardware is missing firmware binary blobs and which firmware binary blob in particular. I don't see a reason not to able to get systems with just the minimal required firmware. Linux itself has attempted some things, but they fall short compared with what linux-libre does.
Of course there's manual intervention on users. A way to introduce the notion to users, besides having the right wikies, would be to include guides on installing first plain linux, finding all requirements 2nd, then replace linux with linux-libre plus all requirements. Then a next step would be introducing basic (no need for full DEs/WMs) ISO linux-libre installer providing a specific wiki on how to deal with it, and see how it goes.
Besides the user intervention, there's additional work on packagers of course, so that packages are available for the binary blobs firmware. This of course is extra work. And there's a minimal delay between linux and linux-libre releases, which some people might claim is a security feature, but that's really non sense at least to me, since the difference is days, vs. non rolling-release distros which some times take more than that to back port security fixes... At any rate, it's possible, requires additional effort. Some might consider it worth it, counting myself, most probably don't care and would prefer to avoid the burden altogether.
As a user one can try it without the help from the distro BTW, for example AUR already offers linux-libre (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre) and several companions, though not sure if linux-libre-firmware (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre-firmware) covers for free software firmware only, or if it includes a whole bunch of non free software firmware. I haven't taken the time to explore, :( but I hope eventually, at some point, I'll be able to take the time and explore linux-libre. Of course if the distro is oriented to linux-libre and offers way with minimal non free stuff to get the hardware working, that's much better.
I dont use aur to install linux-libre i enable libre Repository from Parabola os to artix linux if you want linux-libre add this to pacman.conf down bottom and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
[libre] SigLevel = Never Server = https://repo.parabola.nu/libre/os/x86_64
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: kixik on 24 July 2025, 23:09:03
I dont use aur to install linux-libre i enable libre Repository from Parabola os to artix linux if you want linux-libre add this to pacman.conf down bottom and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
[libre] SigLevel = Never Server = https://repo.parabola.nu/libre/os/x86_64
I totally forgot about parabola, :) Nice ! Thanks !
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 24 July 2025, 23:50:13
Even on Guix (https://guix.gnu.org) which uses linux-libre of course, there's a way to install just the binary blobs you need to make your hardware work, see the nonGuix (https://gitlab.com/nonguix/nonguix) repo, notice the Guile (https://www.gnu.org/software/guile) configs outlined on the nonGuix repo, and there recipes and easier Guix ways practical guides such the systemcrafters one (https://wiki.systemcrafters.net/guix/nonguix-installation-guide).
I believe if packaging and using such drivers on any distro, it wouldn't be too complex to incorporate linux-libre on them. That would be made even easier by adding some tools that would outlined what hardware is missing firmware binary blobs and which firmware binary blob in particular. I don't see a reason not to able to get systems with just the minimal required firmware. Linux itself has attempted some things, but they fall short compared with what linux-libre does.
Of course there's manual intervention on users. A way to introduce the notion to users, besides having the right wikies, would be to include guides on installing first plain linux, finding all requirements 2nd, then replace linux with linux-libre plus all requirements. Then a next step would be introducing basic (no need for full DEs/WMs) ISO linux-libre installer providing a specific wiki on how to deal with it, and see how it goes.
Besides the user intervention, there's additional work on packagers of course, so that packages are available for the binary blobs firmware. This of course is extra work. And there's a minimal delay between linux and linux-libre releases, which some people might claim is a security feature, but that's really non sense at least to me, since the difference is days, vs. non rolling-release distros which some times take more than that to back port security fixes... At any rate, it's possible, requires additional effort. Some might consider it worth it, counting myself, most probably don't care and would prefer to avoid the burden altogether.
As a user one can try it without the help from the distro BTW, for example AUR already offers linux-libre (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre) and several companions, though not sure if linux-libre-firmware (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-libre-firmware) covers for free software firmware only, or if it includes a whole bunch of non free software firmware. I haven't taken the time to explore, :( but I hope eventually, at some point, I'll be able to take the time and explore linux-libre. Of course if the distro is oriented to linux-libre and offers way with minimal non free stuff to get the hardware working, that's much better.
I dont use aur to install linux-libre i enable libre Repository from Parabola os to artix linux if you want linux-libre add this to pacman.conf down bottom and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
[libre] SigLevel = Never Server = https://repo.parabola.nu/libre/os/x86_64
Just to be clear, that is not an artix repository and you can REALLY break things like that. If you want a different distro, just use it. Artix has enough work tilting at the free init system windmill. It doesn't really need other ones.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: jackie777 on 25 July 2025, 00:28:51
I dont use aur to install linux-libre i enable libre Repository from Parabola os to artix linux if you want linux-libre add this to pacman.conf down bottom and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
[libre] SigLevel = Never Server = https://repo.parabola.nu/libre/os/x86_64
Just to be clear, that is not an artix repository and you can REALLY break things like that. If you want a different distro, just use it. Personally, I hate that OS and it doesn't work on most the laptops I've tested it on... so there is that. Artix has enough work tilting at the free init system windmill. It doesn't really need other ones.
You dont have to use Parabola or different os im saying that you can make any distros 100% free software using their repos to install linux-libre and libre repo dont break i install many program from libre repo, Because all the gnu os with using linux-libre is dead and not mantain anymore but the libre repo is maintain and update, thats why i install linux-libre with maintain os like artix linux to make 100% free libre distros and you can even make void linux to use linux-libre everything is possible.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 01:58:53
Just to be clear, that is not an artix repository and you can REALLY break things like that. If you want a different distro, just use it. Personally, I hate that OS and it doesn't work on most the laptops I've tested it on... so there is that. Artix has enough work tilting at the free init system windmill. It doesn't really need other ones.
You dont have to use Parabola or different os im saying that you can make any distros 100% free software using their repos
NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong. You can't even do that with the AUR. There is always some risk involved. You are talking about changing the core repos to those pointed at by another distro run by a very small set of volunteers who couldn't give a rats ass about compatibility or breaking things.
Those kernels, btw, will not work on several of my HP laptops as a matter of fact. And that is just for starters. No amount of fanaticism to the FSF or GNU will change that. It is a different distro and Artix is not responsible for it nor is it a simple replacement.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 02:02:06
Just to be clear, that is not an artix repository and you can REALLY break things like that. If you want a different distro, just use it. Personally, I hate that OS and it doesn't work on most the laptops I've tested it on... so there is that. Artix has enough work tilting at the free init system windmill. It doesn't really need other ones.
You dont have to use Parabola or different os im saying that you can make any distros 100% free software using their repos
NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong. You can't even do that with the AUR. There is always some risk involved. You are talking about changing the core repos to those pointed at by another distro run by a very small set of volunteers who couldn't give a rats ass about compatibility or breaking things.
Those kernels, btw, will not work on several of my HP laptops as a matter of fact. And that is just for starters. No amount of fanaticism to the FSF or GNU will change that.
AND BTW - it is a systemd based system... so there is that.
[...] NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong. You can't even do that with the AUR.
Just calm your tits, would you? You are obviously wrong and here's a thread with CachyOS repos tutorial by Hitman https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,5188.msg33115.html (which is just as Arch-based as Parabola and uses the same systemd as you are screaming about) where you can easily install their optimised kernel, this is absolutely the same usecase as the one jackie's doing here. It's of course unsupported by Artix devs and powerusers do it on their own, but you spewing this nonsense is just beyond unnecessary. He of course can do it and it works, because that is the nature of Linux, which is fucking freedom of choice, it's just the same as installing idk Liquorix kernel with it's own repos by Damentz's script provided on his website, not that this is something unexperienced people should do. You should take some time off the forum, because you're being just way too toxic.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 02:53:26
Quote
systemd plays an important role in the GNU/Linux system as it is today; are we obligated to call it GNU/systemd/Linux? (#systemd)
systemd is a fairly important component, but not as important as the kernel (Linux), nor as important as the basis of the system as a whole (GNU). However, if you want to emphasize the presence of systemd by calling the system “GNU/systemd/Linux,” there is nothing wrong with doing so.
Yeah Stallman has been wrong before and he is still capable of being wrong. SystemD eats up more and more of the systems admin and kernel space activities. If anything, it is a systemD OS and the kernel you can probably change.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: Dastard on 25 July 2025, 03:39:54
Is there anybody use libre kernel in artix linux because im using linux-libre-rt-lts its mantain by Free Software Foundation Latin America, The reason why i like libre kernel because its 100% free software theres no binary blobs no drm and its not mantain by Linus Torvalds or if you want to Escape from linux foundation use libre kernel.
I respect the fully free approach but I personally don't find it viable; you need the right hardware, which is usually dated laptops, and unless you're doing very specific academic or professional work, you will most likely need to run proprietary programs anyways. So while I think it would be fun to set up a laptop to be fully libre (including boot) and try to do as much as you can on it, I don't think it fits the needs of 99%+ of users. And there's also the question of performance for resource intensive tasks, which tends to be lower on fully free systems.
To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security, and I find mainline linux safe enough.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 06:06:34
[...] NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong. You can't even do that with the AUR.
Just calm your tits, would you?
No I won't
Quote
You are obviously wrong
No I am right. There are tutorials to put systemd back on Artix so you show nothing and prove even less.
If you replace the core Artix repos with the broken Parabola ones, it is not Artix and it will create unsupported breakage. It is certainly not something to be recommended for your average user and it is certainly not simple.
If you want Parabola, go use it.
The rest of your opinion here and armchair personal observation are crap.
I will tell you what you are missing most here. There has always been hesitancy with the Artix developers of not over promising what they can and can not promise in terms of support for the general public. If you want to support a systemd free Parabola, then __you do it__. But committing the developers to it is just WRONG.
And posting that someone should recklessly change the supported repos and ***snap*** you will have a nice totally Free version of Artix is not just wrong, but it commits people to support an unstable system that they don't even have control over. It is not right. It is not good advise, and it is unfair to users and developers alike.
BTW - Telling someone to calm their "tits", or whatever obnoxious syntax you used, is sexist, regardless of the gender of the person you are aiming the insult at. I don't greally care because frankly I had classmates in Junior High School in Brooklyn more skilled at such useless vulgarities blended into their regular conversation over baseball and did so more artfully than you would ever be able to master... but still, you should know it says more about you than me. It shows you have a serious problem with women, at least in this instance.
Mod edit, i have hidden this post under a spoiler.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 11:11:52
It shows you have a serious problem with women, at least in this instance.
You should really calm your tits mate. If you are taking some medication for all the ignorant rage you are spreading all over the forum, then dosage may be wrong. If not you should go have that checked.
Title: Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix
Post by: Hitman on 25 July 2025, 12:15:40
To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security(...)
Yeah, this is the ideological nuisance about GNU related projects, although technically right they operate on zero trust, and while this helped personal computing a lot e.g. with their licenses (don't get me wrong if it weren't for them we'd probably have much worse problems with pc's) it leaves a bit of a vacuum, i wouldn't say moral cause maybe they only have the best intentions and they are aware that GNU licensed software can be subversive too, but it certainly needs someone to really make things right, not corporate sellout, neither cultish BS.
linux-libre doesn't boot with a closed sourse driver present and it's a shame they don't have a workaround cause i would use some deblobbed drivers right now... i know i can build my own but it would be too mentally draining (and by coincidence this is what the establishment does to good people nowadays, telling "look,you can/are allowed,go do it" even though it's actually very hard, so you see it can go both ways - and i'm not naming any names here)
systemd is probably not 100% the most subversive GPL licensed software ever made cause like e.g. chromium it grew from the "hands" of too many "people", yes it still needs to be replaced with a competent solution like a s6/dinit hybrid, but i wouldn't be as extreme as to not touch a repository with it. You need moderation or you end up a cult.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: gripped on 25 July 2025, 12:31:21
Please make it stop.
A suggestion was made that if you want this libre kernel you can add the parabola repo at the bottom of pacman.conf. That's the pertinent point "add this to pacman.conf down bottom". So no "replacing the core Artix repos with the broken Parabola ones".
It just lets you install the libre kernel if you want it. No core packages will be replaced as the higher repos take precedence.
There's then a suggestion
Quote
and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
Now maybe the latter should come with some sort of health warning but realistically any one who tries is going to know any breakage is on them.
@mrbrklyn You seem to specialise lately in either telling people not to derail threads, when often they've barely gone off-piste, or derailing them yourself because someone has the audacity to disagree with you.
This libre kernel is clearly not going to work to some degree on devices which need firmware. So it not working on -- insert random laptop here -- is not a surprise.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 12:42:08
Isn't every computer running smaller computer that we can't access, running minix? Maybe those laptops endorsed by FSF don't have it but as I recall they are motherboard thing and not easy to get rid of. So technically it is extremely hard to have completely clean setup.
I find binary blobs, especially those that only get uploaded to printer or scanner, far less dangerous than nvidia blob or anything that executes on main processor.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: Hitman on 25 July 2025, 12:55:40
Probably that's why blob policies in e.g. gnuboot libreboot are like they are, because ideally they would want there to be no blobs at the low cpu/chipset level, but since that is not possible (newest x86 pc's supporting this are from 8 years ago and requiring a hack called deguard) they instead want to block all the other higher level blobs for accessories instead to prove a point, but the newest pc's purely doing that are from 15+ years ago, this is the case with gnuboot.
There is more to the story such as if cpu microcode updates can contain spyware or if even accessories can spy e.g. keylog on you (and e.g. that's why you would want to block all blobs) but why have zero trust?
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: jackie777 on 25 July 2025, 13:42:38
"Hitman" "dpx" "gripped" "shoun2137" "dastard" to these people thank you for helping me from the toxic, and mrbrklyn i hope you doing well in life and wish you happiness so im going close this topic
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 18:15:35
To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security(...)
Yeah, this is the ideological nuisance about GNU related projects, although technically right they operate on zero trust, and while this helped personal computing a lot e.g. with their licenses (don't get me wrong if it weren't for them we'd probably have much worse problems with pc's) it leaves a bit of a vacuum, i wouldn't say moral cause maybe they only have the best intentions and they are aware that GNU licensed software can be subversive too, but it certainly needs someone to really make things right, not corporate sellout, neither cultish BS.
No that has not been the problem with the Stallman view of software in society. The major problem has been, and even Richard acknowledges this, that the net some of all threats to political freedom with software do not just surround copyright and proprietary licenses or the intellectual property law that supports them. It should be well obvious at this point that the FSF position is just not true. For him, as an advanced hacker living in a secure economic environment, that has been his major sword to fall on. But for society as a whole, threats are more nuanced, multi-pointed, and equally threatening, with or without a GNU wrapper for software licensing. This was largely recongkninzed by the FSF and many points covered in the GPL3. Unfortunately threats come from everywhere and include android, hardware complexity, software usage designed to exploit vulnerabilities both human and digital with or without Free Software licneses, more threats than can be named here. Free Software addresses just ***one*** of these threats, abate a very important one. It is this single mindedness and rigorous inflexibility that makes it cult like and undermines its moral position, not just a lack of trust. Many systems we depend on lack trust.
If adherence to the creed requires one to abandon software that works on a large number of systems, and confines it to technocrats who have advanced hacking skills and criminals who work outside the law, then it is very limited to being useful to the broader population. This has always been lost by people who are core FSF supporters, including Richard.
As for the suggested pacman.conf edits: Regardless, wherever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf on the top or the bottom, when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public, core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system. If you are a hacker and willing to live with that risk, more power to you. Go for it. It will not be problem free and it addresses only a subset of the total ecosystem... and it will become a hybid system and dependent on parabola in total to run.
No system or distro can be maintained with this kind of open ended hacking of its core.
There might be other possible solutions, you can pick your poison. One can take on the task and bring into artix a libre version of the kernel. That would address the kernel problem but not the rest of the ecosystem which has FSF compliance issues. There are distros that have a Free Software version along with a non-free software optional version. It is very hard to maintain even with a staff of coders and admins.
One thing I am certain of though. If you take 1000 random users with random hardware and restrict yourself to Parabola or one of the several versions of Free OSes (almost all of which are systemd driven) you will end up with a boatload of unhappy end users with systems that are fundamentally broken for day to day usage... and THAT should had been the "health warning" and it needs to be upfront.
Artix largely works... which is quite an amazing feat for its development people.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: gripped on 25 July 2025, 18:38:12
Regardless, where ever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf , when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public, core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
I'm going to try the shouty thing: NO , NO ,NO. WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT ? (That was fun but is there any way to make it flash?)
This is about people doing it for themselves. Power users / hackers / tinkerer's. What have the unsuspecting public got to do with it ? You've back tracked a bit as apparently people are allowed to play around with custom kernels and foreign repos now where earlier you were saying this shouldn't be done at all.
I'm writing this from a very hybrid system. I call it 'Strapon' because I have a puerile sense of humour. And if it breaks I wouldn't expect any support from anyone.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 18:41:45
Regardless, wherever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf on the topor the bottom, when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public, core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
Case in point, you just have no idea how pacman works, then use grandiose words to mask ignorance. In non-imaginary world you can add repo at the bottom, install only kernel of your choice, and it won't affect rest of the system. Also has nothing to do with systemd since kernel is init agnostic. Certainly doesn't require, nor anybody requested, that arch devs maintain this in any way.
Pray tell, if I enable repo like this and install specific kernel trough it, on my own computer, who is "unsuspecting public"?
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 18:50:44
It just lets you install the libre kernel if you want it. No core packages will be replaced as the higher repos take precedence.
There's then a suggestion
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and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.
Now maybe the latter should come with some sort of health warning but realistically any one who tries is going to know any breakage is on them.
Yeah - I just did that although it should had been included by the poster. It is stretch at best to call the Kernel and non-core package.
This libre kernel is clearly not going to work to some degree on devices which need firmware. So it not working on -- insert random laptop here -- is not a surprise.
Yup. Bet on it.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 18:53:24
Regardless, where ever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf , when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public, core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
I'm going to try the shouty thing: NO , NO ,NO. WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT ? (That was fun but is there any way to make it flash?)
This is about people doing it for themselves. Power users / hackers / tinkerer's. What have the unsuspecting public got to do with it ? You've back tracked a bit as apparently people are allowed to play around with custom kernels and foreign repos now where earlier you were saying this shouldn't be done at all.
I'm writing this from a very hybrid system. I call it 'Strapon' because I have a puerile sense of humour. And if it breaks I wouldn't expect the any support from anyone.
Which is a healthy attitude if you are going to do that.... although I would hope that someone would be willing to collaborate with you. Don't just don't expect it from the core distro. They already ***support*** a systemd free system and xlibre on top of that. You keep posting a ***responsible*** suggestion and comparing that to someone who without warning suggests to hack the pacman.conf file to include an external repo which artix has no control over without any warning that doing so severely alters the fundamental way the system will operate.
This is not just an issue of language either. This is about crossing the line from responsible evangelism of ones position, to irresponsible evangelism.
Years ago, I had this friend, Jay Schulzberger, who decided to install Debian on the computer that ran to bar's audiovisual system. Jay could never understand why NYLUG was then barred from the establishment. Jays explanation for this was the bar's computer was fundamentally broken and it should have one easy button that restored it to its original state (since the computer was accessible to the public).
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 18:58:46
Regardless, where ever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf , when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public, core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
I'm going to try the shouty thing: NO , NO ,NO. WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT ? (That was fun but is there any way to make it flash?)
Which is a healthy attitude if you are going to do that.... although I would hope that someone would be willing to collaborate with you. Don't just don't expect it from the core distro. They already ***support*** a systemd free system and xlibre on top of that.
You are still missing the point. I have no wish or need to collaborate and I don't expect or want it from the core distro. But some people want to discuss such customizations. There was no request for implementation by Artix. You could always choose to just leave such people alone instead of running round like Chicken Licken shouting "The sky is falling."
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: mrbrklyn on 25 July 2025, 19:10:24
Which is a healthy attitude if you are going to do that.... although I would hope that someone would be willing to collaborate with you. Don't just don't expect it from the core distro. They already ***support*** a systemd free system and xlibre on top of that.
You are still missing the point. I have no wish or need to collaborate and I don't expect or want it from the core distro. But some people want to discuss such customizations. There was no request for implementation by Artix. You could always choose to just leave such people alone instead of running round like Chicken Licken shouting "The sky is falling."
The sky is not falling. Just don't expect everything to be roses and and chocolates if you hybridize artix with parabola by hacking pacman.conf. There is no point being missed.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 19:27:58
Just don't expect everything to be roses and and chocolates if you hybridize artix with parabola by hacking pacman.conf.
So rationally tell people this then, for the benefit of those noob users who think a random thread on the forum from a fairly new user (no disrespect) is official Artix team advice.
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NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong.
You were wrong. You still are wrong. You probably know deep down you are wrong? One can make any distro anything one likes. Some things are harder than others but very little, if anything, is impossible.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: gripped on 25 July 2025, 19:40:08
Just don't expect everything to be roses and and chocolates if you hybridize artix with parabola by hacking pacman.conf.
So rationally tell people this then, for the benefit of those noob users who think a random thread on the forum from a fairly new user (no disrespect) is official Artix team advice.
Quote
NO YOU CAN NOT. That is misinformation and you are wrong.
You were wrong. You still are wrong. You probably know deep down you are wrong? One can make any distro anything one likes. Some things are harder than others but very little, if anything, is impossible.
What I wrote was correct. I was going to let you have the last word, but I wanted to dispel any notion that I was wrong with regard to the suggestion or that I feel I was wrong about the objection. I do admit I can be tone deaf at times, but I don't think so in this case. Adding a foreign repo to Artix will not give you a free version of Artix without problems. Given enough time, if not immediately, it will screw up Artix. The suggestion that one can just add a few lines to pacman.conf and Volia! you get a free version of Artix! That is wrong and shouldn't be encouraged with out context, warnings and follow up discussion. Hitman's tutorial was responsible evangelism, helpful and educational. This was not.
Happy Hacking.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: Shoun2137 on 25 July 2025, 19:50:48
BTW - Telling someone to calm their "tits", or whatever obnoxious syntax you used, is sexist, regardless of the gender of the person you are aiming the insult at. I don't greally care because frankly I had classmates in Junior High School in Brooklyn more skilled at such useless vulgarities blended into their regular conversation over baseball and did so more artfully than you would ever be able to master... but still, you should know it says more about you than me. It shows you have a serious problem with women, at least in this instance.
[Fatal Error]: Tits were not calmed. Segmentation fault (turd dumped)
Both men and women have tits, so how is that... <reads note> sexist against women? Is there something we don't know? None of that american guilttripping will work on me, simply because all of the things you've said are wrong and full of fallacies. Calm your tits and balls and whatnot, take some time of the forum because seriously you're just mental.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: gripped on 25 July 2025, 19:52:17
Guess who ?
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The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him, the ease with which any Party intellectual would overthrow him in debate, the subtle arguments which he would not be able to understand, much less answer. And yet he was in the right! They were wrong and he was right.
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: dpx on 25 July 2025, 19:53:13
What I wrote was correct. I was going to let you have the last word, but I wanted to dispel any notion that I was wrong with regard to the suggestion or that I feel I was wrong about the objection.
I noticed elsewhere that you really want to have the last word, regardless what unrelated crap you'll post. So it is on, count me in, last who posts here wins. Alternatively mods could silence one or us, whatever comes first.
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Adding a foreign repo to Artix will not give you a free version of Artix without problems. Given enough time, if not immediately, it will screw up Artix.
Also entropy, given enough time, will screw up Artix? Are we just inventing sentences now to mask the fact you were wrong in detail and as a whole?
Title: Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?
Post by: gripped on 25 July 2025, 19:56:06