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Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #15
I have a copy of deleted by KDE (censorship) reddit post if anyone would like. There will be more and more hardcoded ktelemetry dependancy. Besides "slider" from 'kuserfeedback' GUI is fake. It does nothing. Data is still collected.

P.S. Surprisingly Fedora 32 KDE Spin does not have this. They removed it! Maybe Artix could do it too. I will refuse to use Xfce and Mate and Mutter (or Fedora). They are not for me, neither the set of GTK apps. The case is there will be more like this. First KDE, then Xfce, thne Fluxbox or whatever. It doesn't work this way "go away, use something else". Lets say MS via Linux Foundation (they are member of it, platinum one) sponsors KDE and demands it. Its their biggest competitor. So when you say "don't use it, go away", what does it do to the MS competition? Exactly. MS wins. 20 years of KDE and it was fine. And now this. Then if everyone will go to Xfce and a "sponsor" demands "spyware" situation will be the same: "go away". Where? GNOME 3, jwm? No it doesn't work this way.

There are only like 2 "mother" distros "Debian" and "Arch". MS has only to convince two of them, the rest will follow. And all of them will have spyware. So lets say NSA wants inclusion of systemd. They only need like 4 people: 2 in Debian and 2 in Arch. 1st person from each is the BOSS of the distro, 2nd person of both of this distros is "the head of polls" (does anyone ever made a real polls asking people about init?). Exactly. 4 people and 100s of distro follow.


and have you created a new bug in archlinux to remove it? it will not be done by itself

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #16
I don't think rebuild some KDE packages would be a problem but rebuild the whole plasma is another topic. Our resources are very limited and build the whole KDE is costly. Also, rebuild just some KDE packages could possibly  make Plasma more difficult to upgrade for all those users that are as unfortunate as to make an upgrade while Arch packages have an update but we could not update ours yet.

I didn't read the reddit thread, and I understand some users can feel strongly against this kind of practices I also value my privacy, if KDE is gonna follow this path from now on, I would suggest to move to something else, even if we end maintaining our own packages for it.

you need rebuild few packages (mostly pim and kate) in KDE, not all Plasma, because this kuserfeedback is optional only, no hard dep.

But, I'm just surprised by the hysteria, instead of really seeing what they really downloading from the user. Source codes are available.
what they want from us? https://api.kde.org/frameworks/kuserfeedback/html/namespaceKUserFeedback.html

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #17
Would something like this work?
Code: [Select]
$ ln -s /dev/null testnull
$ echo "hello" >testnull
$ cat testnull
It seems telemetry is disabled as default, but the app still logs the data regardless. So if you had a package that shipped with it that just provided a symlink log file to /dev/null, but could be removed if someone wanted to use the telemetry feedback, could that provide a simple hack to disable it?
https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/539352-KDE-Plasma-5-18-Going-down-the-telemetry-road
They suggest:
add "127.0.0.1 telemetry.kde.org" to "/etc/hosts"

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #18
I don't need zeitgeist, I don't need geoip-city, geoip2, dbus generating uniqueID (machine-id).
I'm no fan of tracking either, but apart from the suggestions above (and until/unless a dev takes over the offending packages or the entire kde group), you can use the symlink and/or hosts tricks. BTW, our community ISOs create a random machine-id of the box at every boot.

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #19
I have a copy of deleted by KDE (censorship) reddit post if anyone would like. There will be more and more hardcoded ktelemetry dependancy. Besides "slider" from 'kuserfeedback' GUI is fake. It does nothing. Data is still collected.
I would like a copy. Please do PM me. I shall duly share it with all the KDE users I know.

I will refuse to use Xfce and Mate and Mutter (or Fedora). They are not for me, neither the set of GTK apps. The case is there will be more like this. First KDE, then Xfce, thne Fluxbox or whatever. It doesn't work this way "go away, use something else". Lets say MS via Linux Foundation (they are member of it, platinum one) sponsors KDE and demands it. Its their biggest competitor. So when you say "don't use it, go away", what does it do to the MS competition? Exactly. MS wins. 20 years of KDE and it was fine. And now this. Then if everyone will go to Xfce and a "sponsor" demands "spyware" situation will be the same: "go away". Where? GNOME 3, jwm? No it doesn't work this way.
There are only like 2 "mother" distros "Debian" and "Arch". MS has only to convince two of them, the rest will follow. And all of them will have spyware. So lets say NSA wants inclusion of systemd. They only need like 4 people: 2 in Debian and 2 in Arch. 1st person from each is the BOSS of the distro, 2nd person of both of this distros is "the head of polls" (does anyone ever made a real polls asking people about init?). Exactly. 4 people and 100s of distro follow.
I do share the concern but we cannot control the actions of those 4 (or anyone for that matter) or incentivise them to act in good faith for OUR benefit. We should no try to force someone to acquiecse to our wishes and whims, though they may be rational and justified. We can try to convince them to do the right thing but should not try to hector them into doing it. That will only backfire. All we can and should do is spread awareness and take measures to protect ourselves. That is how we got the FSF and GNU. rms did not sit around asking others to stop doing the wrong thing, he created an alternative - a better one in relation to the mainstream, I would argue. Similarly, Artix developers too took the initiative and created an alternative to systemd-encumbered distributions - one that works faster and better.

We must embody the same spirit and try to create our own alternative or at the very least support those alternatives that do what is right. Continuing to use KDE while complaining about its telemetry is as futile as using Facistbook and Goolag while complaining about their unjust privacy policies.

I am not saying that posts like these are not useful - all I say is that we must not let them be our only means of trying to actuate change.

I suggest you try out some window managers as alternatives to KDE or GNOME or whatever you fancy. I have found them to be the best solution as they let us choose what we use and why. They also have helped me learn a lot more about the software I use than any DE ever did - which I deem is a net positive. They are also lighter on resources and by extension, faster.

Check out Enlightenment WM. I feel it is a very good alternative to KDE. Maybe you will end up changing your mind on KDE after you use it. ;)
#FreeHongKong

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #20
Registered just to say thanks for spreading this...

guess Open Source goes more and more M$'ish for every year..

knew you have to watch Canonical but KDE, that was a blow from behind..

for the ones looking at Enlightenment and EFL.
those are very good but not really mature enough to switch from Qt5 (and upcomming Qt6) yet imho,
but i do see them as the next stepping stone once EFL 2.0 is mature, we might get a stable Enlightenment 1.0..

/Björn
Why did i choose Linux so many years ago?
< - Privacy - Stability - Usability - >

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #21
Registered just to say thanks for spreading this...

guess Open Source goes more and more M$'ish for every year..

knew you have to watch Canonical but KDE, that was a blow from behind..

for the ones looking at Enlightenment and EFL.
those are very good but not really mature enough to switch from Qt5 (and upcomming Qt6) yet imho,
but i do see them as the next stepping stone once EFL 2.0 is mature, we might get a stable Enlightenment 1.0..

/Björn
We have lots of choices in the open software world...that is NOTHING AT ALL like M$. I REFUSE to use m$ operating systems and have avoided them for the past 20 years. I am a KDE user and proponent, but have used other DE's as well. I always found other DE's to be lacking in some regard when compared to KDE, for many reasons. Open source does not ram itself down anyone's throat a la m$.
No one dictates what we should use and there are a plethora of options out there. That is what open source is all about, and I am a strident supporter of oss.
Linux is the absolute best option for anyone that is concerned about security.....bar none!

Best regards.
We should try to be kind to everyone.....we are all fighting some sort of battle.

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #22
I dislike spying and all the stuff connected to it.
However, I don't quite get the fuzz, because users need to urgently become aware that internet and computers have been conceived by the military and intelligence agencies, namely DARPA. The programming language C was created to stir missiles into a target, apart from financial applications. Go figure please people. This technology is not your friend you can ever trust, just become aware of this.

As you can see with language policing in the kernel etc, the slime mold has infested everything in our lives, everything.

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #23
We have lots of choices in the open software world...that is NOTHING AT ALL like M$. I REFUSE to use m$ operating systems and have avoided them for the past 20 years. I am a KDE user and proponent, but have used other DE's as well. I always found other DE's to be lacking in some regard when compared to KDE, for many reasons. Open source does not ram itself down anyone's throat a la m$.
No one dictates what we should use and there are a plethora of options out there. That is what open source is all about, and I am a strident supporter of oss.
Linux is the absolute best option for anyone that is concerned about security.....bar none!

Best regards.

i totally agree on choices in open software world is not like M$ but the road to hell was paved with good intentions..

and yea i get red rashes from windows, don't we all..

the problem with open source is that if you take an inch here, and an inch there,
soon you will need to build and patch every damn thing yourself to be able to trust
the software does not leak information in an unwanted way (eg telemetry etc).

i see where it is going, don't look at 'now' look two or ten years ahead..
otherwise you go into the trap and accept the inch of movement in the wrong direction.

I dislike spying and all the stuff connected to it.
However, I don't quite get the fuzz, because users need to urgently become aware that internet and computers have been conceived by the military and intelligence agencies, namely DARPA. The programming language C was created to stir missiles into a target, apart from financial applications. Go figure please people. This technology is not your friend you can ever trust, just become aware of this.

As you can see with language policing in the kernel etc, the slime mold has infested everything in our lives, everything.

problem is the user base of Linux is getting larger and larger, and most new people that has not been around,
Unix/Linux for 20 years just accept the shit that comes creeping and mostly due to people don't care anymore.

a lot of the dont care anymore is due to Google and Facebook, people think everything is out there anyway..

and thats the problem..

to end this post in a more positive way, i want to say thanks that the artix team got rid of systemd from Arch,
its the poster child of shit creeping around places it should not be...


take care both of you
Why did i choose Linux so many years ago?
< - Privacy - Stability - Usability - >

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #24
Quote
Unix/Linux for 20 years just accept the shit that comes creeping and mostly due to people don't care anymore.

My point would be, besides all the software surveillance and meta data mining, all those hardware backdoors are never really discussed, except "by accident, a flaw or exploit was discovered".

Privacy is long gone, sadly, but itfeels safe to have some telemetry module disabled,  just like wearing a silly mask protects you from nothing.

 

Re: KDE Spyware

Reply #25
My point would be, besides all the software surveillance and meta data mining, all those hardware backdoors are never really discussed, except "by accident, a flaw or exploit was discovered".

Privacy is long gone, sadly, but itfeels safe to have some telemetry module disabled,  just like wearing a silly mask protects you from nothing.

so true about feeling of safe... and privacy is long gone, but it should not make us not try to get it back, an inch at a time..
Why did i choose Linux so many years ago?
< - Privacy - Stability - Usability - >