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Topic: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix (Read 12441 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #30 –
Well Obarun uses jwm, which doesn't require much but it came with consolekit which was required along with cgmanager for something else.  So I didn't study it much.  For years I had been using some lxde stuff on openbox, one of them was lxsession (which in arch contains lxpolkit), which requires either one of the two evils through polkit.  On artix polkit requires elogind, but on obarun it doesn't require consolekit..  ....  hence the confusion.  This is not judgemental in any way, it is choice and approaches in doing things, which I have learned to respect, in the struggle against "all evil".  Even MX which comes with systemd/libs..  installed but is not using it for what it was created for has become a top3 choice of interest in Distrowatch.  Entry level anti-systemd :)

Looking at this experimental project where one started with gentoo and tried to survive without dbus and how hard that was in gentoo (even), I think we don't have enough distributions out there that can deviate radically from the norm.  I have faith in Adelie as breaking new ground, and void-musl is a ground breaker as well.  But under a wider perspective one can appreciate artix more in being so rich and providing so much choice while walking a thin line between being too radical and disfunctional and as being as functional as any systemd distribution.  It is like walking on a wire.  The political parallel to this would have been Allente in Chile, who eventually fell off the wire 9/11 1973.

Re: Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #31 –
So, i use smdev+nldev instead of udev for about a week on my main desktop and it really works. The weak sides are high boot time (smdev proceeds all uevents sequentially with only 1 core and after that it LVM waits 20 seconds for each block device to be registered in udev database) and some udev-dependent services (for example, udisks2 is not working).
What do you think about adding these packages to goblins? The full package list consists of smdev, nldev, some helper scripts for smdev, openrc init scripts and modified xorg-server (it also works with udev)
ARMtix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #33 –
Would it be too much to ask to make runit scripts as well?

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #34 –
Quote from: fungalnet – on
Would it be too much to ask to make runit scripts as well?
I will do it later
If you can do it earlier, i expect the following recipe to work:
1) "smdev -s" is executed in /etc/rc/sysinit instead of all udev services (before lvm)
2) in default runlevel nldev is started
3) after nldev "nltrigger add all" triggers uevents which didn't exist at first step
EDIT: uploaded runit scripts too
ARMtix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #35 –
It's already hard to keep up with Arch as it is, adding these packages to our repos would mean extra workload for Artix devs. May I suggest:
1. You create an unofficial repository with your packages
2. Or, join the Artix dev team and maintain the packages in [galaxy]

Free cookies are given!

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #36 –
Quote from: nous – on
2. Or, join the Artix dev team and maintain the packages in [galaxy]
I think galaxy-goblins will be right place for this stuff. Also how about creating wiki page about udev-less systems?
ARMtix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #37 –
There are two ways to integrate these.
One would be using a neutral udev/libudev depends/provide in all our packages, lo5t of work to change it, or the alternative uses provides array with  eudev/libeudev in PKGBUILD.

Artix is currently built around eudev.

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #38 –
Quote from: artoo – on
There are two ways to integrate these.
One would be using a neutral udev/libudev depends/provide in all our packages, lo5t of work to change it, or the alternative uses provides array with  eudev/libeudev in PKGBUILD.

Artix is currently built around eudev.
nldev+smdev can be installed alongside udev. In general one only needs to deactivate udev initscripts and enable smdev and nldev ones. There is separate package for xorg-server to work. I hope i will furter provide the same pakages for lvm2 and cups to improve their performance without udev
ARMtix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #39 –
Quote from: nous – on
It's already hard to keep up with Arch as it is, adding these packages to our repos would mean extra workload for Artix devs. May I suggest:
1. You create an unofficial repository with your packages
2. Or, join the Artix dev team and maintain the packages in [galaxy]

Free cookies are given!
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
I think galaxy-goblins will be right place for this stuff. Also how about creating wiki page about udev-less systems?
Personally, I think anything [goblins] aka. [staging] shouldn't be used for experimental features like this since [goblins] aka [staging] is also used to build many important, critical, breaking updates (e.g. toolchains such as gmp, mpfr, mpc, gcc, glibc or even kernel updates).
now only the dinit guy in artix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #40 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
By default nldev reads messages from kernel and libudev (unless you tell it to ignore one of them). After your reply i tested nldev only with kernel messages: the only difference is that rtsx_usb_ms and memstick modules are not loaded and ccm module is loaded.
Also i made a mistake in last report: sound works OK, at least cmus and alsamixer work without problems


Are you doing all this testing on a VM?

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #41 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
By default nldev reads messages from kernel and libudev (unless you tell it to ignore one of them). After your reply i tested nldev only with kernel messages: the only difference is that rtsx_usb_ms and memstick modules are not loaded and ccm module is loaded.
Also i made a mistake in last report: sound works OK, at least cmus and alsamixer work without problems


Are you doing all this testing on a VM?

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #43 –
Just tried nldev on Firefly RK3399 (see Aarch64 topic for its state in general). In general it works the same as with udev but:
1) in /dev/snd i have control device which i don't have while using udev (HDMI audio doesn't provide control devices)
2) keyboard behaves weird in xorg (all is OK in tty): on my keyboard i cannot use arrow keys and right Alt and Ctrl. But some keys on numeric pad work as arrow keys, PgUp, PgDn and others. I tried to configure it in xorg.conf.d but after that xorg couldn't find monitor
ARMtix

Re: [SOLVED] Udev alternatives in Artix

Reply #44 –
So, i have solved that issue for Firefly and maybe this is a general solution if you need evdev with X but don't use udev. In my case /dev/input/event0 is mouse, /dev/input/event1 is keyboard and i made the following configs for Xorg:1) /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-evdev.conf
Code: [Select]
Section "Module"
        Load "evdev"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier "evdev-input0"
        Driver "evdev"
        Option "Device" "/dev/input/event0"
EndSection
Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier "default-keyboard"
        Driver "evdev"
        Option "Device" "/dev/input/event1"
        Option "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection
2)/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-main.conf
Code: [Select]
Section "ServerLayout"
        Identifier "main"
        InputDevice "evdev-input0"
        InputDevice "default-keyboard"
EndSection
Now both keyboard and mouse use evdev module and keys work properly without additional configuration
ARMtix