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is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

i noticed that fresh after installation of artix linux internet is blazing fast and i have no errors at all.... it just connects to every website the way it should, it has speed of sound (rapid fast).

but as soon as i perform pacman -Syyu that kills internet and internet is not just slowlier but also i get lots of resolve problems.
it seems like i don't need to download any packages to be able to play windows games via wine. so i decided i'm not gonna perform full pacman upgrade.
however would be nice if i knew how can i upgrade single package perhaps, but not sure if its even necessary.

if i havent got any issues and problems with my linux artix at the moment do i miss something if i don't perform full upgrade????

thank you!
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #1
i think you should only use sudo pacman -Syu not Syyu ?

You would be better doing the updates with nothing running in the background as there could be conflicts especially if in a browser while its being updated.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #2
and what's the difference between -Syu and -Syyu??
because it seems like they both wanna download the same packages. and i wouldn't mind, but as soon as i upgrade my internet starts to act not normal. right now i havent performed any upgrades after installation of lxqt.iso and my internet runs like a charm, it's so fast like i never experienced that before.
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #3
and what's the difference between -Syu and -Syyu??
Syu only searches for packages in configured repos, whereas Syyu updates repos (i.e. if you changed some repos in pacman.conf the changes will apply only after Syyu)

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #4
yeah but i always heard on windows and others you need to update to keep your system stable and secure but it seems to me like my system is more stable without performing -Syu...
i have installed artix from lxqt.iso 64 bit runit and both on openrc and runit upgrading artix did mess in my system with internet.
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

 

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #5
If simply updating packages causes internet issues, my only guess is that something about the internet drivers changed (i.e. something in the kernel) since you've had the same problem across different network connection daemons. If you feel like hunting down exactly what package is causing you the problem, you can try upgrading one by one and seeing if anything is affected. My guess would be it's probably something in the kernel (and you would need to restart after upgrading that one of course), so try that one first if you're up to it.

If you locate what exactly is causing problems for you, you may want to file a bug upstream somewhere.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #6
hey

thanks for help.
i have thought about that before, i wanted to try install single packages and see where an error occurs. however i am not very familiar to pacman, i only tried manjaro and antergos before but not for more than few days. i been on devuan before (as non systemd distro) for several months, so i am a bit more familiar with apt-get than pacman.
so you mentioned trying to update linux kernel.
I am not sure if pacman -Syu upgrades existing packages or adds new ones as well, because 2GB packages seems like a lot. I doubt it that i use all of em in everyday computer using.

so is linux kernel this package: linux-4.20.2.artix1-1
i have also no idea how to check what version of linux kernel i have at the moment. i was thinking that maybe i should try to install artix from base and perform full upgrade however i have done that with arch linux last week, but i upgraded before installing xfce still in terminal promt. and these problems with internet occured as well on arch linux, so it hasn't got anything to do with artix packages.
few days ago i performed full upgrade using just Artix repositories, however that did mess to system icons.

so perhaps what i should try is to upgrade just linux kernel (if it's linux-4.20.2.artix1-1).
perhaps i should try upgrade packages that are base and needed for using lxqt. im gonna go on arch wiki in a minute see if there are tips on how to upgrade single package using via pacman but i been there before and i haven't seen anything specific about this.
On arch linux wiki there's note in pacman website
Quote
Arch only supports full system upgrades. See System maintenance#Partial upgrades are unsupported and #Installing packages for details.
; so i am not sure how to try localize the cause of problem if i only can perform full upgrade  :-X , cuz i know that as soon as i perform full upgrade i am gonna have unusable internet again...  :'( .

thanks
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #7
Oh you can just sync the mirror with pacman -Syy and then downloaded the latest version of any package with pacman -S (it'll fetch the latest version for you and update just the required packages). Finding the exact version where breakage occurs will require more work, but that would be at least an easy start.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #8
well, i am not sure because it isn't my work to find bugs.
i only want my system to be nice and stable. ;)
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #9
Well sure it's ultimately up to you. Of course, never updating will eventually cause you to run into some problems, so it may be in your interest to at least know what package causes the problem.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #10
With pacman upgrading only few packages falls into the category of partial upgrades which may lead to broken system. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/System_maintenance#Partial_upgrades_are_unsupported

Upgrades can become huge as many packages depend on other packages. For examples when package like linux kernel or gtk2/3 are updated all packages depending on them needs to be rebuild. However one may choose to upgrade the system only once a week or once a 15 days. Delaying upgrades for wary long time may also be troublesome, especially when major update comes in pacman, and system is left with older unsupported pacman version.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #11
i did update of those:
Code: [Select]
system/linux               4.18.12.artix1-1            4.20.2.artix1-1               7.19 MiB      72.79 MiB
system/linux-firmware      20180825.fea76a0-1          20181218.0f22c85-1          127.70 MiB      79.07 MiB
system/util-linux          2.32.1-2                    2.33.1-2                      0.99 MiB       2.01 MiB
world/xf86-input-libinput  0.28.0-1                    0.28.1-1                      0.00 MiB       0.03 MiB
world/xf86-video-intel     1:2.99.917+858+gc37c7ee0-1  1:2.99.917+858+gc37c7ee0-1    0.00 MiB      

and nothing happened with the connection. I think it's something that pacman -Syu downloads from arch repositories, some package that i haven't got installed at the moment.
i don't really use internet that much but i'd rather have stable internet than upgraded system with unstable net. i only play some single player games using wine and that's it.

i am not sure if upgrading and updating it's so necessary because let's say i wanna install artix linux on a laptop that won't be connected to internet. i can't see any reason why should i perform full upgrade and download 300 packages to play few games and browse internet???
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #12
i am not sure if upgrading and updating it's so necessary because let's say i wanna install artix linux on a laptop that won't be connected to internet. i can't see any reason why should i perform full upgrade and download 300 packages to play few games and browse internet???

Any rolling release os will give you huge upgrades every few weeks. If you just want to play some games and browse internet try something like puppy linux. Small, and stable.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #13
and nothing happened with the connection.

Well if you're still good after that, I guess we can probably rule out any funky hardware drivers or anything like that (which is good). If you want,  you can try wpa_supplicant next and see if that messes anything up. If that one still works okay, I guess maybe you can just go one-by-one upgrading whatever you have installed on the system (you can generate a list of installed packages with pacman -Q) and testing the connection (very tedious unfortunately).

As for never, updating? Well sometimes there are nice performance updates/new features you might want. You've mentioned wine which is definitely a project worth staying up to date with. For example, wine 4.0 just came out which includes support for vulkan, game controllers and Direct3D 12. But yeah if your machine isn't connected to the internet, there's not any strong security-related reasons to stay up to date.

Re: is pacman upgrade necessary to perform??

Reply #14
yeah rolling releases that make internet on my system unstable. i think arch linux is unstable, because these packages that cause issues come from arch linux repositories
right now i wanted to boot into system and i had some mount.33 error and i couldn't even use keyboard because no letters appeared.

i am fed up with this. i think arch linux developers can't handle maitaining they os and  they can't develop new stuff without using google all the time. if you are developer and use google, you develop unstable crap, like my artix linux is after i perform upgrade. and it's something from arch.
i am not linux administrator i just look for some stable and nice system for playing games, i can't see the point of having bloody edge packages and everything up to date to play some medal of honor from 2003 or elder scrolls oblivion or heroes IV. i wanna be able to maitain my system without searching internet for solutions all the time because i'm sick of this process. ohh that package is missing and search engine why. fed up with this stuff....

i am looking for some nice distro that i can use and entertain myself without connecting to internet all the time, maybe even for long time. but it's annoying when i write long e-mail and i press send and i get error resolution failed and i lost email.
what you saying it sounds to me like if i have laptop for 10 months without internet connection then it gonna become unstable anyway, even without connecting to internet.

so this is my point, artix seems more stable to me before upgrading. i can't allow myself to install single packages all the time and get crashes i dont know why, i cant even use console.
so maybe somebody else should work finding bugs, not me, it's not my business. you may say it's better to perform upgrades all the time and updates but i have better experience if i don't perform one.

artix iso is from november 2018 i think. but arch linux had resolve problems as well, so it's something upstream and im too inexperienced to find this. i wanna complete few single player games not reinstall os all the time because something has crashed.  :'(
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness;
May all beings be free from suffering and the causes of suffering;