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The Tragedy of systemd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

linux.conf.au 2019 — Christchurch, New Zealand

I don't quite agree with some of the conclusions, but still good talk.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #1 –
Very much beyond my knowledge, but interesting and informative.

Best regards.
We should try to be kind to everyone.....we are all fighting some sort of battle.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #2 –
I didn't like it.  It is like a diplomat of software, trying to be friends with everyone, "I am here available for hire".  Too much of a politician to trust anything he says, even if you don't theoretically understand everything he says.  So, who paid his trip to NZ to give a speech?  .....follow the money ....
I can smell a double agent.  :)

Next thing you know he is leading a team (with unknown funding sources) to port systemd to BSD.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #3 –
Quote from: fungalnet – on
I didn't like it.  It is like a diplomat of software, trying to be friends with everyone, "I am here available for hire".  Too much of a politician to trust anything he says, even if you don't theoretically understand everything he says.  So, who paid his trip to NZ to give a speech?  .....follow the money ....
I can smell a double agent.  :)

Next thing you know he is leading a team (with unknown funding sources) to port systemd to BSD.


The point of posting it, systemd has poisoned the well.
There is no debate how to solve problems any longer in cooperation mode.
But why should it be different from other things these days, where no one has the guts to tell things like they are, because everyone is scared of the thought police?

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #4 –
You declare your goals, the way you are going to pursue them, and with who you are going to pursue them, as a group not an individual, and you walk a clear line.  Those who are looking at the same direction will either be with you or walking on a parallel path.  The rest will remain endlessly lost.

Trying to step on two boats will not get you across . 

That's what I think.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #5 –
I enjoyed this talk...

the impression I got was that he liked the original concept but only upto a point.
And the way Systemd has gone was to much.

but then maybe I misunderstood, it happens

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #6 –
Sorry again this is all based on my ideas are better than yours mentality.

Systemd is what mainstream Linux needs Joe Public does not give a dam it works like Windows, Mac, does a central command centrer.

Others like us want to be in control I wish i could go back to the days of Arch and simple BSD scripts but alas that is gone.

 We are in this not so brave new world that demands everybody be the same think the same, controlled by the thought police.

Well count this old dog out, I want what I want not what i'm told I want.



Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #7 –
Well but when i say to people i use Linux they either don't know what it is or they think ubuntu linux... Prove me that i am wrong... But ubuntu linux has systemd so basically when i say to people i use linux to them it's like i use systemd linux but i am not...
So what i am supposed to say to people to make them think that i have linux on mylaptop that is not systemd but who the hell knows anything about what systemd or init systemd is and nobody cares about it too out there.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #8 –
Joe public uses windows they know nothing else its free with the laptop/desktop they buy. come on they watch porn play the odd game, facebook, they are happy to take it back to the store every few months, spend their money, then get told they need to buy a new one, Apple is even better at it they have it down to a tee, its the American way Joe public knows no better.
Linux users although a grumpy lot, think theirs years more life in that hardware. But i you look around with Joe public they still think you have to have the latest GPU every 3 months the latest hardware blaa blaa.
Where the real Linux user waits I just started to use SSDs now they are low priced and made to last a few years.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #9 –
Quote from: mandog – on

Systemd is what mainstream Linux needs Joe Public does not give a dam it works like Windows, Mac, does a central command centrer.

I don't really agree. The init crap doesn't matter to 99% of users. Joe public doesn't know the difference between systemd, openrc, syvinit, etc. Mainstream linux would have been just fine with any of these choices. I think systemd was adopted really quickly thanks to marketing and that it made life easier for distro maintainers.

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #10 –
One thing that is nice on this forum is other users even though they may disagree with opinions of others they still respect them

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #11 –
SYSTEMD is the corporate takeover of User Space and Server Space thanks to the Red Hat(s).  The most detrimental part of this planned siege is the invasion of Server Space where production servers represent significant losse$ to Stake Holders and the Business when they are down.

Server Down:
  o Power loss
  o Network connection offline
  o Hardware failure
  o OS crashed
  o Server Software crashed

What we see, are people sitting at home on their Laptops, making YouTube videos, and telling everyone how fast systemd boots.  What do the sysadmins have to say when their server OS has crashed and it was systemd that created the problem, and the only fix is to bounce the server and wait for it to happen again.

Eaxamples:
"Debian systemd maintainer stepped down over developers not fixing breakage"
www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/agna5n/debian_systemd_maintainer_steps_down_over

sysadmin experience with systemd:
# systemd-mount -o remount,rw /dev/sda1 /boot
Failed to start transient mount unit: Unit boot.mount already exists.

# systemd-mount --umount /dev/sda1 /boot
Stopped unit boot.mount for mount point: /boot
# systemd-mount -o rw /dev/sda1 /boot
Failed to start transient mount unit: Unit boot.mount already exists.

cannot execute script prior to reboot/shutdown
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2019-January/041988.html

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #12 –
Quote from: mandog – on

Systemd is what mainstream Linux needs


No.  the mainstream isn't using Linux at all but on Android, which is already a locked up box that is linux in name only.  Otherwise they use BSD based Apple or MS WIndows.  Linux, per se, as always, is irrelevant to them.

Systemd is what redhat and professional admins felt they needed for a variety of reasons, the biggest being they wanted to simplify the development expenses for virtual machines in racks for cloud computing.

JonQ public doesn'tg even figure into this and the PC/Laptop is a dead platform anyway..

Re: The Tragedy of systemd

Reply #13 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
PC/Laptop is a dead platform anyway..

Yeah i have noticed this, but i had lots of smartphones they all ended up broken after few months or usage or they simply fell of from my pocket twice and first one i was like where is this phone i lost it when i went for a walk to nature...  ::) and then second time i had short pants on me and htc smartphone in the pocket and i was sitting by the river and suddenly i heard *plum* and bye bye smartphone, that was my last one. The truth is i haven't even used phone for about 5 months now... I feel like alien from different planet because of this, 2019 and having no phone!?? Something must be wrong with this guy!!

Right now my laptop has Artix and Obarun installed, Obarun is for offline stuff like open source games eg. Hedgewars Supertux, also for GIMP because i have got new camera and i take pictures so i am having fun with it and also there is Audacity that i use to record stuff, cuz i have got tiny drumkit in my place haha ;P. Battery lasts for so long i can actually go out and not worry about battery running out quickly.
And i am perfectly satisfied with all this stuff, Artix is for browsing internet and also downloading stuff to obarun from chroot and trying new things... And internet is so quick and fast and laptop is just like a dream, while windows 10 was slow and was overheating so much@@!! I lost about 25% of battery design capacity because of using windows 10 for few months... However i have never had better experience with browsing internet that i am having on the laptop now using Artix, it is better than any tablet or smartphone i used.... Also what is very positive switching to Linux made me read more books cuz i really cut down playing these proprietary stuff therefore i have got much more time for myself.... I know i keep writing a lot about myself but it's truth!@@ I feel like there is magic on my laptop because of all of you and i wish other people could experience that too....