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Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

I mean they are toxic and angry kind of. It seems very sus. Its just not very important of life, we dont still 24/7 with computers. They talk like zealots. Its kind of weird and nerdy.

I am kinda new to linux so it seems weird. In this video the guy talks seems so angry. He talks like scolding people. Well who the f are you? Its linux man not your own company.
https://youtu.be/_VrgSxaOxuk

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #1
Hi,

I can confirm this attitude by their side, cause I have faced it a lot, and it is at least unacceptable, when we are discussing about Linux init systems.

You have used the correct term, zealots, and this goes to them and their supporters.

Even worse, they are calling us as "haters" and so on, while they are the ones to be charged about it.

Well, let it be so.

Regards

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #2
Hi,

...unbelievable that people hate for the sake of an init (systemd)!

In my turn let me confirm that written word remains, words just fly and thoughts make tomorrow.

I wish you all good luck and "libre" thoughts  :D

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #3
Some people live on youtube "traffic". They need to create dramas to lure viewers to click their videos. ;)

Systemd vs alternatives, it's about simplicity and speed. Just boot Arch(Manjaro, Endeavour, etc) and Artix up side by side, see which system gets ready first.

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #4


Well, let it be so.




Even though this "hater" label is just weaponization of language to stifle debate and silence opposition, hence a bunch of nonsense.
But, what is wrong with a normal human feeling of hate?
Its within the emotional spectrum, something natural. And isn't it funny, that those who obsess over hate all day, are usually those who project too much their hate onto others.

To me, systemd is a non issue by now, we build up an alternative, it coexists with systemd.

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #5
I don't give a shit is people call me "hater" because I do hate systemd. As I said in my mastodon account, I don't care if systemd is just another init or alternative like OpenRC, S6, Runit, Shepherd and so on. What really piss me off is that systemd is becoming the cancer that is swallowing all the ecosystem and make software depending on it. Thanks to distros like Devuan, Gentoo, Artix, etc that are showing those kind of discomfort is that many projects now think twice before making any disruptive changes because of systemd, in the past they just changed things and everyone else just go fuck themself. Thanks to "protests distros" we still can enjoy GNU/Linux without loosing other freedoms.

In my opinion we can't let companies like Red Hat (With systemd) and Canonical(With Snap) drive the future of GNU/Linux however they want, community is important in the same way or even more.
Artix Linux Colombia


Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #7
I don't give a shit is people call me "hater" because I do hate systemd. As I said in my mastodon account, I don't care if systemd is just another init or alternative like OpenRC, S6, Runit, Shepherd and so on. What really piss me off is that systemd is becoming the cancer that is swallowing all the ecosystem and make software depending on it. Thanks to distros like Devuan, Gentoo, Artix, etc that are showing those kind of discomfort is that many projects now think twice before making any disruptive changes because of systemd, in the past they just changed things and everyone else just go fuck themself. Thanks to "protests distros" we still can enjoy GNU/Linux without loosing other freedoms.

In my opinion we can't let companies like Red Hat (With systemd) and Canonical(With Snap) drive the future of GNU/Linux however they want, community is important in the same way or even more.

Well, I also dislike systemd cause it tends to make Linux a part of it, although it should be the opposite.

Plus, I agree to your point for init freedom regarding GNU/Linux and the significant role of Linux communities, especially the healthy ones that endorse nonsystemd systems.

Regards

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #8
That video has bad editing and is a load of codswallop....

what about those of us who have tried systemd stuff and get nothing but issues.

The only systemd based distro I have been able to use on my gear without being laggy,  so far is Linux Mint XFCE edition and it still has problems.....
- its not a great idea to reboot, but sometimes you have to due to kernel updates.
- you got to find the right wifi adapter, so you can plug-in, plug-out, plug-in that will actually work.
- ive got a Ryzen 5 3400G that has graphics driver issues on reboot.
- ive got an AMD FX 8320 that comes up with massive amd-vi errors (which im pretty sure is related to the usb3 controller - its missing )
- on the AMD FX 8320 + Gigabyte 970A-D3P v2,  i can have my 8x usb2 ports, or my 4x usb 3 but not all of them.
- the AMD FX 8320 seams to end up with severe dual booting issues ( grub errors, missing boot entries)


just when i had found Manjaro Open-RC, i find out its getting the boot :( .....

I am toying with Devaun and Artix due to these issues

isnt that what systemd-shim and libelogind is all about having to bypass those developers who have become monopolosied by systemd

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #9
Na its all in the mind if its on You-tube its about money, a init is a init regardless of the arguments for and against,
All this i hate is gutter talk, its just "WANNA BE IN MY GANG"

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #10
I don't give a shit is people call me "hater" because I do hate systemd. As I said in my mastodon account, I don't care if systemd is just another init or alternative like OpenRC, S6, Runit, Shepherd and so on. What really piss me off is that systemd is becoming the cancer that is swallowing all the ecosystem and make software depending on it. Thanks to distros like Devuan, Gentoo, Artix, etc that are showing those kind of discomfort is that many projects now think twice before making any disruptive changes because of systemd, in the past they just changed things and everyone else just go fuck themself. Thanks to "protests distros" we still can enjoy GNU/Linux without loosing other freedoms.

In my opinion we can't let companies like Red Hat (With systemd) and Canonical(With Snap) drive the future of GNU/Linux however they want, community is important in the same way or even more.


I agree in all terms with what is expressed here by jrballesteros05. Fortunately, there are more and more distributions that do not use or intend to use systemd. Devuan, Antix, Calculate, PCLinuxOS, Gentoo, Slackware and their excellent derivatives. Long live all the distros that don't "go with the flow." Best regards to all.
Free the world from the evil software called systemd.

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #11
DistroTube a systemd pro? i dont know about. He continuously use, mentions and promotes minimalism, opensource software, libre and such and YET adores systemd and all its included junk.

I really do not trust, majority of these youtube content, for the reason that the content is meant to gain views and hopefully ads.

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #12
Back to the question that is the thread title:  "Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?"

Besides the hard work they're doing to keep their baby crawling, they're also in a headspace very similar to a religion;  they've adopted this init cancer and they hug and hold  and nurture it every day.. so, to suggest it's not needed and even inferior to OUR baby, no systemd, is to threaten them and their work and most importantly their beliefs.  VERY similar to the Micro$oft asses.. and I fear similar in too many ways.

~ hagg

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #13
SystemD in my eyes is a tool developed by corporation (RedHat) for other corporations.
RedHat guys (and other kinds) have many things prepared for it and thus it would be pain for them to stop using it.
Other corporations like it because it has support from other corporation which they can call when there is a problem and it is mostly one package which contains almost all basic stuff they will need.
I see this as major selling point for it since huge corporations do not wish to play with small things, for them it is better to spend more money and buy something.
In other words, it can give a lot of people work and thus a good livelihood.

Now when I look at it from the point of normal user like myself I do not see those benefits which might come into account if I was a huge corporation.
All I see is a needlessly overcomplicated huge mess given (forced on) to me for testing purpose, so that the major bugs can be solved before it is used by huge corporations.

Next I see it as perfect example of EEE strategy (Embrace - Extend - Extinguish).
https://systemd-free.artixlinux.org/img/systemd-devours-all.gif

I dare to say we are at Extinguish phase since other projects which were providing similar functionality (see image above) to some parts of systemd are simple gone (or part of systemd now).

I also see it as a "killer" of a bit chaotic environment in Linux/open source world.

PS: If you think systemd is just an init you are not thinking hard enough. Systemd is (as mentioned in some presentation about systemd I watch somewhere a long time ago) a system between kernel and user programs. (lets think of it in similar way Apple is doing things, you do not contact kernel or HW, you use their libraries to do the job you want).

PS2: Maybe the bar is too high up and thus people expect for everything to work in same way without any effort.

Enough of my rumbling.

Have a nice day.
Man is as good as his tools.

Re: Why are systemd pros so angry about no systemd?

Reply #14
Well said sgorava and I'll be reading it again.  Thanks!

~ hagg