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Topic: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland (Read 6952 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #15 –
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
And you like to make bold statements without providing any reasoning whatsoever.
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
I wasn't taking about Wayland and Systemd per se, but thanks, I guess...
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
While that might be generally true, it doesn't explain the behavior of certain people of criticizing the options others choose.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with this thread?
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons,fonts} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #16 –
Quote from: lq – on
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this thread?
Do I need to achieve something? If you mean to ask what my motivations are: to discuss things with others; if you ask for the topic of the discussion, I think it's clear: the reason why some people seem to be against projects of the like of Artix that are open to alternatives of Systemd and Wayland.

"Pertaining" I believe means relating and not necessarily "about". If you were thinking the title is not proper.

Am I misusing the forum?

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #17 –
Quote from: ####### – on
"While that might be generally true, it doesn't explain the behavior of certain people of criticizing the options others choose."
I'm not sure of the psychological term but it seems a common flaw for humans to confuse personal choice with absolute truth then impose this on others because they have decided it's the best, when it really only applies to themselves. Think of children declaring my favorite toy / team or whatever is better than yours. It appears time and again in politics too, adults can also be affected if they don't attempt to avoid falling into this way of thinking.
That makes tons of sense.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #18 –
Quote from: tintin – on
Good wine needs no bush. *

* À bon vin point d'enseigne (In French).
I believe you are trying to say that things like Linux don't require marketing. I would say that although they don't need it, if they want a huge userbase, they could benefit from it.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #19 –
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
The so called "strong voices" you speak of are only useful idiots. They're soulless Bugmen waiting for new orders of what idea to proselytize next. Remove them from the chessboard and nothing will change. Except maybe a different type of useful idiot.
Despite being hard to believe, I think that's probably the most feasible explanation.

Good old pattern recognition makes this easier to believe:
1.) Identify the problem. - "Strong Voices"
2.) List the traits of the problem. - "Follow what we proselytize or you are enemy"
3.) Classify the problem. - "Wayland and SoystemD people"

Take in steps 1 and 2 and you'll realize that different classes intersect:
"Wayland and SoystemD people", "Rust people", "mainstream media people (be it news or Hollywood)", "Pronouns in bio people", "Bluesky people", "Twitter before Elon people", etc.
Can name much more, but that's a good starter.

With time you'll then be able to create a mental tree mapping of how it all works.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #20 –
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
Quote from: K0rpZ0uth – on
For a more substantial take on both SystemD and Wayland...
I wasn't taking about Wayland and Systemd per se, but thanks, I guess...

...Is this thread not about discussing SystemD or Wayland?

Try making any sense.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #21 –
I think it's a mixed bag.
-The corporate suits do seem to be trying to solidify control. With IBM looming above Red Hat, that's not a major leap to make.
-After everything we've witnessed in the past 10 years I don't think it's conspiratorial at all to think that at least some influencers are getting paid to shill.
-Some are just those who ALWAYS follow mainstream opinion and repeat it without really thinking about it.
-Others are literally fanatical. Multiple times I've made comments somewhere online about using something other than systemd and the systemd zealots start raging. Or I'll mention I use X or Xlibre and the Wayland zealots start raging.

All of this nonsense assures me I'm in the right place.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #22 –
Quote from: dangsasquatch – on
I think it's a mixed bag.
-The corporate suits do seem to be trying to solidify control. With IBM looming above Red Hat, that's not a major leap to make.
-After everything we've witnessed in the past 10 years I don't think it's conspiratorial at all to think that at least some influencers are getting paid to shill.
-Some are just those who ALWAYS follow mainstream opinion and repeat it without really thinking about it.
-Others are literally fanatical. Multiple times I've made comments somewhere online about using something other than systemd and the systemd zealots start raging. Or I'll mention I use X or Xlibre and the Wayland zealots start raging.
I think this the most complete explanation. And yes, influencers get paid to promote stuff, so I think that explains a lot.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #23 –
Quote from: K0rpZ0uth – on
...Is this thread not about discussing SystemD or Wayland?

Try making any sense.
I don't want to be rude, but try reading what this post is about; I don't think there's a lot more sense to be made.

Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
"Pertaining" I believe means relating and not necessarily "about". If you were thinking the title is not proper.
I do apologize if the title may be a little misleading.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #24 –
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on

Despite being hard to believe, I think that's probably the most feasible explanation.

Good old pattern recognition makes this easier to believe:
1.) Identify the problem. - "Strong Voices"
2.) List the traits of the problem. - "Follow what we proselytize or you are enemy"
3.) Classify the problem. - "Wayland and SoystemD people"

Take in steps 1 and 2 and you'll realize that different classes intersect:
"Wayland and SoystemD people", "Rust people", "mainstream media people (be it news or Hollywood)", "Pronouns in bio people", "Bluesky people", "Twitter before Elon people", etc.
Can name much more, but that's a good starter.

With time you'll then be able to create a mental tree mapping of how it all works.
I don't think I agree with this.  I'm simply not a huge fan of putting people into boxes. There might be a value in doing this, but I can't see how this can help.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #25 –
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on


Good old pattern recognition makes this easier to believe:
1.) Identify the problem. - "Strong Voices"
2.) List the traits of the problem. - "Follow what we proselytize or you are enemy"
3.) Classify the problem. - "Wayland and SoystemD people"

Take in steps 1 and 2 and you'll realize that different classes intersect:
"Wayland and SoystemD people", "Rust people", "mainstream media people (be it news or Hollywood)", "Pronouns in bio people", "Bluesky people", "Twitter before Elon people", etc.
Can name much more, but that's a good starter.

With time you'll then be able to create a mental tree mapping of how it all works.
I don't think I agree with this.  I'm simply not a huge fan of putting people into boxes. There might be a value in doing this, but I can't see how this can help.

Whether you are a fan of it or not is irrelevant. It has various terms to describe it: "demographic", "identity", "target audience", "fans", "group", etc. No one is an exception of this. For example: I belong in the "I don't like systemD" box. Pattern recognition simply helps and enables you to see the grand scheme of things.


Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
Quote from: dangsasquatch – on
I think it's a mixed bag.
-The corporate suits do seem to be trying to solidify control. With IBM looming above Red Hat, that's not a major leap to make.
-After everything we've witnessed in the past 10 years I don't think it's conspiratorial at all to think that at least some influencers are getting paid to shill.
-Some are just those who ALWAYS follow mainstream opinion and repeat it without really thinking about it.
-Others are literally fanatical. Multiple times I've made comments somewhere online about using something other than systemd and the systemd zealots start raging. Or I'll mention I use X or Xlibre and the Wayland zealots start raging.
I think this the most complete explanation. And yes, influencers get paid to promote stuff, so I think that explains a lot.

It is well laid-out. Just to add in: I have already hinted that earlier at the "Bugmen" and "masters".

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #26 –
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
Whether you are a fan of it or not is irrelevant. It has various terms to describe it: "demographic", "identity", "target audience", "fans", "group", etc. No one is an exception of this. For example: I belong in the "I don't like systemD" box. Pattern recognition simply helps and enables you to see the grand scheme of things.
That's a fair point.

Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
It is well laid-out. Just to add in: I have already hinted that earlier at the "Bugmen" and "masters".
Yes, you did. Your answer, however, implied some type of affiliation; money seems like the most plausible motivator.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #27 –
Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
Whether you are a fan of it or not is irrelevant. It has various terms to describe it: "demographic", "identity", "target audience", "fans", "group", etc. No one is an exception of this. For example: I belong in the "I don't like systemD" box. Pattern recognition simply helps and enables you to see the grand scheme of things.
That's a fair point.

Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
It is well laid-out. Just to add in: I have already hinted that earlier at the "Bugmen" and "masters".
Yes, you did. Your answer, however, implied some type of affiliation; money seems like the most plausible motivator.

I can partly agree with this. Since some entities push X idea(s) even if a lot of people are not a fan of it. Changing the wording in version control systems (from master to main), Rust in the kernel, and ubuntu's snaps for example.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #28 –
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
I can partly agree with this. Since some entities push X idea(s) even if a lot of people are not a fan of it.
Let me see if I understand, you think that an influencer would reject money if a larger audience didn't like the ideas and that that they would only push unlikable ideas if there's some type of ideology behind? That would make an intelligent influencer, but I'm pretty sure money moves people quite effectively.

Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on
Changing the wording in version control systems (from master to main), Rust in the kernel, and ubuntu's snaps for example.
I can see external interests behind snaps and Rust in the kernel. I can't see why anyone outside of Canonical(without involving money) would want to push the idea of snaps, though.
Changing the master-branch's name doesn't seem to be the type of thing where there's a leader behind to take some form of benefit. It's ideological, but I don't see the master & useful idiot dynamic. And ideologies aside, I do prefer the name "main" for master-branches.

Re: Thoughts pertaining Systemd and Wayland

Reply #29 –
1.) As I've said, partly. Because in your sample, that is valid. Although in other samples. Not always.
2.) External interest does not equate to the majority. More prefer flatpak than snaps. Rust in the kernel is pushed by ideologues. Linus caved in. Just like adding in the COC to the kernel.

Quote from: m4rtin23 – on
I don't see the master & useful idiot dynamic.
Then you lack the info for it. I'd like to elaborate, but it will become extremely political and I don't want to turn this thread into a shit storm. Although a hint would suffice: "useful idiot" != "complete idiot".