Artix Linux Forum

General Category => Off-Topic => Topic started by: cat herders of linux on 30 April 2023, 21:47:31

Title: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 30 April 2023, 21:47:31
System Specs:
Code: [Select]
System:
  Kernel: 6.2.13-lqx2-1-lqx arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.1
    Desktop: MATE v: 1.27.0 Distro: Artix Linux base: Arch Linux
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: HP product: HP EliteDesk 800 G3 SFF v: N/A
    serial: <filter>
  Mobo: HP model: 8299 v: KBC Version 06.29 serial: <filter> UEFI: HP
    v: P01 Ver. 02.40 date: 04/08/2022
Battery:
  Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech M570 charge: 30%
    status: discharging
  Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Keyboard K360
    charge: 100% (should be ignored) status: discharging
Memory:
  RAM: total: 31.14 GiB used: 5.85 GiB (18.8%)
  Array-1: capacity: 64 GiB slots: 4 EC: None max-module-size: 16 GiB
    note: est.
  Device-1: DIMM4 type: no module installed
  Device-2: DIMM3 type: DDR4 size: 16 GiB speed: 2400 MT/s
  Device-3: DIMM2 type: no module installed
  Device-4: DIMM1 type: DDR4 size: 16 GiB speed: 2400 MT/s
CPU:
  Info: quad core model: Intel Core i7-7700 bits: 64 type: MT MCP
    arch: Kaby Lake rev: 9 cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 8 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 3601 min/max: 800/3601 boost: enabled cores: 1: 3601
    2: 3601 3: 3601 4: 3601 5: 3601 6: 3601 7: 3601 8: 3601 bogomips: 57600
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU117 [GeForce GTX 1650] vendor: Gigabyte driver: nvidia
    v: 530.41.03 arch: Turing bus-ID: 01:00.0
  Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.8 driver: X: loaded: nvidia
    unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa gpu: nvidia,nvidia-nvswitch
    resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 530.41.03 renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX
    1650/PCIe/SSE2 direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 200 Series PCH HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
  Device-2: NVIDIA vendor: Gigabyte driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    bus-ID: 01:00.1
  API: ALSA v: k6.2.13-lqx2-1-lqx status: kernel-api
  Server-1: sndiod v: N/A status: off
  Server-2: JACK v: 1.9.22 status: off
  Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.70 status: off
  Server-4: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active (root, process)
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Ethernet I219-LM vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: e1000e
    v: kernel port: N/A bus-ID: 00:1f.6
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Realtek Bluetooth Radio type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8
    bus-ID: 1-13:3
  Report: rfkill ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: see --recommends
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 1.48 TiB used: 687.12 GiB (45.3%)
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Western Digital model: WD BLACK SN770 500GB
    size: 465.76 GiB temp: 41.9 C
  ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Micron model: MT-128 size: 119.24 GiB
  ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST1000LM035-1RK172 size: 931.51 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 53.6 GiB used: 37.52 GiB (70.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
  ID-2: /boot/efi size: 511 MiB used: 476 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1
  ID-3: /home size: 95.27 GiB used: 60.85 GiB (63.9%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 64 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/sdb1
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 67.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nvidia temp: 73 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nvidia fan: 75%
Info:
  Processes: 240 Uptime: 3h 16m Init: dinit Compilers: gcc: 12.2.1
  clang: 15.0.7 Packages: 1177 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.16 inxi: 3.3.26

So on this sff business pc i plane to install the following items into a 4 lane pci3 slot:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJTVGZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B55R7PYB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


presently i have a pci4 nvme in the motherboards pci3 slot from where i run linux.  i have a 128 gb msata in a case/adapter that provides sata interface where i have installed windows and i mostly use that windows install in a virtualbox.  On occasion however i do boot into windows.  On those rare occasions what happens is that widows keeps editing my cmos and making its boot loader the preferred bootloader such that if i boot into winodws and then finish what i've dont and rebboot wishing to see grub and choose artix, i will have to ebter cmos first and once more disable windows bootloader and enable grub efi for artix as the primary and preferred bootloader before then saving my settings and rebooting yet again, to reach grub.  THat's the circumstance and i hate it.

So my question is this: once i have installed this 4 lane pci adapter and the nvme drive and after installing windows onto it, will windows be able to boot the machine by itself or will it need a bootloader on another drive (like say from grub on the motherboards nvme slot) in order for windows to boot?  WIll this prevent windows bootlooader from hijacking my machine on that rare occasion when i boot into windows from grub but then wish to reboot back into linux - without having to reset cmos every time back to artix grubs efi nbootloader?

what say youse?  you all?  y'all?  youins? all of you?


My plan of course is to disconnect all drives including my artix nvme and then install windows on the low cost nvme and then move windows nvme over to the 4 lane pci3 adapter card and retire the msata from os use whilst putting everything else back the way it was.

Anyone has experience with these sff business machines to know what to expect?

If this works as i hope and my windows install stops messing with the cmos and editing bootloaders the next month i think i will but this and call this build finally complete:

https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Band-Wireless-Antennas-Standard-Low-Profile/dp/B088M5CK5K/ref=sr_1_5?crid=196FDJ3SWXAO8&keywords=m.2+wifi+with+antenna&qid=1682884232&sprefix=m.2+wifi+with+an%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-5


Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: lq on 01 May 2023, 03:27:13
what say youse?  you all?  y'all?  youins? all of you?

"Ceterum censeo M$ esse delendam"

RTFM:
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c05386798
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 01 May 2023, 07:08:52
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: lq on 01 May 2023, 07:51:00
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.

lol,

i understood it very well.

Regardless of what this crappy M$ Windows does, you always have the option of using the UEFI boot manager.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: ####### on 02 May 2023, 02:17:36
Windows must be sending a command to do this, as other installations of Windows don't then it's presumably possible to stop it somehow by some configuration - no idea how exactly though.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 04:07:03
Windows must be sending a command to do this, as other installations of Windows don't then it's presumably possible to stop it somehow by some configuration - no idea how exactly though.
I cant find it.   my thought was to put widows on a drive that cmos cant boot from.  My understanding is these nvme drive on pci adapter cards are readable by the os but not bootable at startup, such that i would need a bootloader from another drive to be able to access it.  I was hoping someone here might know but perhaps i should try the windows fanboys at toms hardware and deal with their fuming disgust of my not wanting windows as the primary os on my pc.

but then again maybe lq has a point that a password on cmos might be enough to prevent it?  Though they didnt say that it seems the only other option they could possibly mean since i certainly tried going through every option on every menu lookign for it.  Disabling the windows bootloader and moving it to the bottom of the list doesnt work once i boot from windows, so i do that as infrequently as possible.  Windows alters the bootorder and enables itself as the primary bootloader every time.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 04:12:33
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.

lol,

i understood it very well.

Regardless of what this crappy M$ Windows does, you always have the option of using the UEFI boot manager.
is it then your assertion that the windows uefi boot manager is capable of booting linux and all i have to do is alter the machines uefi bootloader to make that happen?  ie add an entry to it?


it's a shame this machine won't recognize non-uefi bootlaoder from linux at all.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 04:38:05
whatever it is that windows does, adding a password to cmos had no effect on it.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 04:58:03
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/stoping-windows-for-changing-my-custom-cmos-settings.3805959/
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: lq on 02 May 2023, 10:02:23
My understanding is these nvme drive on pci adapter cards are readable by the os but not bootable at startup, such
that i would need a bootloader from another drive to be able to access it.  I was hoping someone here might know but perhaps i should try the windows fanboys at toms hardware and deal with their fuming disgust of my not wanting windows as the primary os on my pc.

RTFM:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03840403
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03840403#AbT3


"Those who can read have a clear advantage".
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 12:20:19
Clearly the post telling me to rtfm is inappropriate.   They are either not understanding the problem or simply can't understand the problem.  Who is that making such a post?

@lq if you have nothing useful to offer, you might be better off saying nothing.
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: Hitman on 02 May 2023, 12:34:08
Sometimes when i need windows for like a program that needs a driver or one that won't work in wine, i just boot up a WinPE live cd like this: https://www.hirensbootcd.org/

99% of the time you don't a full install of windows that would do the efi boot order like that

Or you can install Enterprise LTSC, they can't do it on that ;)
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: ####### on 02 May 2023, 15:19:23
In the Linux world there is efibootmgr:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface)
And in Windows there is bcdedit:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44919190/windows-equivalent-to-efibootmgr (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44919190/windows-equivalent-to-efibootmgr)
According to that thread it can be fixed using bcdedit, although I haven't done that myself.
Some other general stuff I came across on the Arch Linux wiki while searching looks like it might possibly have helpful advice too, e.g.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows)
This looks especially relevant:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Windows_changes_boot_order (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Windows_changes_boot_order)
(Reading the Tom's Hardware thread you linked above, and following the linked possible solution from that thread to an existing thread, they also suggest using bcdedit, so it sounds promising!)
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 02 May 2023, 19:00:40
Turns out i didn't disable the quick boot feature of windows under the power management settings.  Was sure i had.  certainly did for hibernate and disabled quickboot under cmos settings.  I guess windows was trying to enable quickboot and rewrote the cmos boot order in its attempt to enable quick boot.  
It is certainly disabled now and does not rewrite the cmos any longer.!!!!!
Title: Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: lq on 03 May 2023, 10:19:31
Clearly the post telling me to rtfm is inappropriate.   They are either not understanding the problem or simply can't understand the problem.  Who is that making such a post?

@lq if you have nothing useful to offer, you might be better off saying nothing.

So you think a BIOS manual for YOUR HARDWARE is useless?
In your opinion, I should write what's in it again here in the forum because you're too lazy to read it yourself?

Do you have any other wishes?
Can I come to your place, do your laundry, cook for you and clean your place, because maybe you don't want to do that either?
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: ####### on 03 May 2023, 14:49:18
I didn't know the Artix forum offers a home help service as well!  ;D  Although the BIOS manual does give a clue: "note: For Windows 8 systems with Fast Boot support, a normal shutdown goes to the S4 state, not the S5 state"
it doesn't exactly say turn off fast boot in Windows (not in the BIOS) settings. Also as the Tom's Hardware people said the Windows fast boot option skips the bit where the UEFI boot order is read and goes directly to Windows, so it looks like no multi boot settings would work while that is on, until that was corrected nothing else would have any effect on the situation.
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 03 May 2023, 19:19:02
Clearly the post telling me to rtfm is inappropriate.  They are either not understanding the problem or simply can't understand the problem.  Who is that making such a post?

@lq if you have nothing useful to offer, you might be better off saying nothing.

So you think a BIOS manual for YOUR HARDWARE is useless?
In your opinion, I should write what's in it again here in the forum because you're too lazy to read it yourself?

Do you have any other wishes?
Can I come to your place, do your laundry, cook for you and clean your place, because maybe you don't want to do that either?

regardless of what the manual says or doesn't say, your bad attitude tells me everything i need to know:

please go troll somewhere else. 

have a nice day.
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 03 May 2023, 19:23:49
I didn't know the Artix forum offers a home help service as well!  ;D  Although the BIOS manual does give a clue: "note: For Windows 8 systems with Fast Boot support, a normal shutdown goes to the S4 state, not the S5 state"
it doesn't exactly say turn off fast boot in Windows (not in the BIOS) settings. Also as the Tom's Hardware people said the Windows fast boot option skips the bit where the UEFI boot order is read and goes directly to Windows, so it looks like no multi boot settings would work while that is on, until that was corrected nothing else would have any effect on the situation.
i wouldnt knwo the difference between an s4 and an s5 state to save my life.  anything on toims hardware mention fastboot other than my post would likely have been edited after the fact.  i saw no posts there mention fast boot.
As far as artix home services go: i'm happy to come there and pet your cats :)

in any case the problem still persists intermittently...  but seems to happen when i boot into windows 2x.  the first time i can still get grub but the secons time is a no go so probably if i biot into artix after leaving windows for any reason, i might be ok.  I'll be looking at those uefi editors next i suppose.


Toms HArdware is a mess.  I report a problem and people want to argue with me to tell me the problem i report isn't happening and then when i have a solution i got different other people telling me that's not a solution.  pit of trolls.

IN any case i am looking at your links now to see if there is a remedy for what seems like a more intermittent problem now that the first thing is done correctly.
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: ####### on 03 May 2023, 22:19:16
"Fast boot doesn't change your boot order, it skips some of the boot up process which includes the loading of the boot menu. "
That was some helpful info I thought, although added after you found the solution from the Arch wiki pages. So having fixed the fast boot setting in Windows, now the UEFI boot order thing is probably the new issue, a new layer to resolve. lq has been around on here a fair while and puts in some good comments, best not start a "troll hunt" as the more people on here the better chance someone can answer the various questions that arise, after all, you aren't consulting the Oracle of Delphi just a bunch of enthusiasts sharing their experience mostly. Using Windows often leads to people becoming frustrated and irate I have observed.  :D
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: cat herders of linux on 03 May 2023, 23:56:21
https://pastebin.com/y7GZPzzq

ok so that's step one.  my head swims from all the numbers.

this is the drive listed in that where artix is installed :


Code: [Select]
Firmware Application (101fffff)                                                                                         
-------------------------------                                                                                        
identifier              {6123f06a-e944-11ed-9e6c-806e6f6e6963}                                                         
description             WD_BLACK SN770 500GB-22115Z801531    


and further down it has a grub listing:

Code: [Select]
Firmware Application (101fffff)                                                                                         
-------------------------------                                                                                        
identifier             {6123f070-e944-11ed-9e6c-806e6f6e6963}                                
device                  partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume8                                                              
path                    \EFI\grub\grubx64.efi                                                                          
description             grub  

and so the last entry on his site :

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44919190/windows-equivalent-to-efibootmgr

Quote
If a Linux boot loader is already configured, the sequence can be changed with bcdedit /enum firmware should list it. Imporant is only the GUID of the boot loader object listed with the Linux boot loader, i.e. a string looking like {01234567-89AB-CDEF-0123-456789ABCDEF}, and replace {<GUID>} in the following examples with your actual GUID.

Any firmware boot loader can be set as the default EFI boot option with bcdedit /set {fwbootmgr} default {<GUID>}.

but the problem i have is that that number is repeated most of the way down the page the guid  {6123f070-e944-11ed-9e6c-806e6f6e6963}   and it seems associated with more devices than just my linux install nvme or the grub lines.  It doesn't look unique to me.  and if i ran:

Code: [Select]
bcdedit /set {fwbootmgr} default {6123f070-e944-11ed-9e6c-806e6f6e6963}


which is what i understand, i'm not sure i wouldn't harm my system.

and in any case, feral cats are outside waiting to be fed....
Title: Re: [SOLVED] Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot
Post by: ####### on 04 May 2023, 03:14:06
Perhaps try # blkid in Artix to get the uuid of your Artix efi boot partition, would that help identify the right one? Usually you have more than one efi stub loader in your efi partition. You can probably boot an Artix iso and use that to recover if it doesn't boot after this.