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Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

System Specs:
Code: [Select]
System:
  Kernel: 6.2.13-lqx2-1-lqx arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.1
    Desktop: MATE v: 1.27.0 Distro: Artix Linux base: Arch Linux
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: HP product: HP EliteDesk 800 G3 SFF v: N/A
    serial: <filter>
  Mobo: HP model: 8299 v: KBC Version 06.29 serial: <filter> UEFI: HP
    v: P01 Ver. 02.40 date: 04/08/2022
Battery:
  Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech M570 charge: 30%
    status: discharging
  Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Keyboard K360
    charge: 100% (should be ignored) status: discharging
Memory:
  RAM: total: 31.14 GiB used: 5.85 GiB (18.8%)
  Array-1: capacity: 64 GiB slots: 4 EC: None max-module-size: 16 GiB
    note: est.
  Device-1: DIMM4 type: no module installed
  Device-2: DIMM3 type: DDR4 size: 16 GiB speed: 2400 MT/s
  Device-3: DIMM2 type: no module installed
  Device-4: DIMM1 type: DDR4 size: 16 GiB speed: 2400 MT/s
CPU:
  Info: quad core model: Intel Core i7-7700 bits: 64 type: MT MCP
    arch: Kaby Lake rev: 9 cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 8 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 3601 min/max: 800/3601 boost: enabled cores: 1: 3601
    2: 3601 3: 3601 4: 3601 5: 3601 6: 3601 7: 3601 8: 3601 bogomips: 57600
  Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU117 [GeForce GTX 1650] vendor: Gigabyte driver: nvidia
    v: 530.41.03 arch: Turing bus-ID: 01:00.0
  Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.8 driver: X: loaded: nvidia
    unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa gpu: nvidia,nvidia-nvswitch
    resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz
  API: OpenGL v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 530.41.03 renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX
    1650/PCIe/SSE2 direct-render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 200 Series PCH HD Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
  Device-2: NVIDIA vendor: Gigabyte driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
    bus-ID: 01:00.1
  API: ALSA v: k6.2.13-lqx2-1-lqx status: kernel-api
  Server-1: sndiod v: N/A status: off
  Server-2: JACK v: 1.9.22 status: off
  Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.70 status: off
  Server-4: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active (root, process)
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Ethernet I219-LM vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: e1000e
    v: kernel port: N/A bus-ID: 00:1f.6
  IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Realtek Bluetooth Radio type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8
    bus-ID: 1-13:3
  Report: rfkill ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: see --recommends
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 1.48 TiB used: 687.12 GiB (45.3%)
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Western Digital model: WD BLACK SN770 500GB
    size: 465.76 GiB temp: 41.9 C
  ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Micron model: MT-128 size: 119.24 GiB
  ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: Seagate model: ST1000LM035-1RK172 size: 931.51 GiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 53.6 GiB used: 37.52 GiB (70.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
  ID-2: /boot/efi size: 511 MiB used: 476 KiB (0.1%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1
  ID-3: /home size: 95.27 GiB used: 60.85 GiB (63.9%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/nvme0n1p3
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 64 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/sdb1
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 67.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nvidia temp: 73 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nvidia fan: 75%
Info:
  Processes: 240 Uptime: 3h 16m Init: dinit Compilers: gcc: 12.2.1
  clang: 15.0.7 Packages: 1177 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.16 inxi: 3.3.26

So on this sff business pc i plane to install the following items into a 4 lane pci3 slot:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJTVGZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B55R7PYB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


presently i have a pci4 nvme in the motherboards pci3 slot from where i run linux.  i have a 128 gb msata in a case/adapter that provides sata interface where i have installed windows and i mostly use that windows install in a virtualbox.  On occasion however i do boot into windows.  On those rare occasions what happens is that widows keeps editing my cmos and making its boot loader the preferred bootloader such that if i boot into winodws and then finish what i've dont and rebboot wishing to see grub and choose artix, i will have to ebter cmos first and once more disable windows bootloader and enable grub efi for artix as the primary and preferred bootloader before then saving my settings and rebooting yet again, to reach grub.  THat's the circumstance and i hate it.

So my question is this: once i have installed this 4 lane pci adapter and the nvme drive and after installing windows onto it, will windows be able to boot the machine by itself or will it need a bootloader on another drive (like say from grub on the motherboards nvme slot) in order for windows to boot?  WIll this prevent windows bootlooader from hijacking my machine on that rare occasion when i boot into windows from grub but then wish to reboot back into linux - without having to reset cmos every time back to artix grubs efi nbootloader?

what say youse?  you all?  y'all?  youins? all of you?


My plan of course is to disconnect all drives including my artix nvme and then install windows on the low cost nvme and then move windows nvme over to the 4 lane pci3 adapter card and retire the msata from os use whilst putting everything else back the way it was.

Anyone has experience with these sff business machines to know what to expect?

If this works as i hope and my windows install stops messing with the cmos and editing bootloaders the next month i think i will but this and call this build finally complete:

https://www.amazon.com/Tri-Band-Wireless-Antennas-Standard-Low-Profile/dp/B088M5CK5K/ref=sr_1_5?crid=196FDJ3SWXAO8&keywords=m.2+wifi+with+antenna&qid=1682884232&sprefix=m.2+wifi+with+an%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-5


Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #1 –
Quote from: cat herders of linux – on
what say youse?  you all?  y'all?  youins? all of you?

"Ceterum censeo M$ esse delendam"

RTFM:
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c05386798
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #2 –
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #3 –
Quote from: cat herders of linux – on
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.

lol,

i understood it very well.

Regardless of what this crappy M$ Windows does, you always have the option of using the UEFI boot manager.
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #4 –
Windows must be sending a command to do this, as other installations of Windows don't then it's presumably possible to stop it somehow by some configuration - no idea how exactly though.

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #5 –
Quote from: ####### – on
Windows must be sending a command to do this, as other installations of Windows don't then it's presumably possible to stop it somehow by some configuration - no idea how exactly though.
I cant find it.   my thought was to put widows on a drive that cmos cant boot from.  My understanding is these nvme drive on pci adapter cards are readable by the os but not bootable at startup, such that i would need a bootloader from another drive to be able to access it.  I was hoping someone here might know but perhaps i should try the windows fanboys at toms hardware and deal with their fuming disgust of my not wanting windows as the primary os on my pc.

but then again maybe lq has a point that a password on cmos might be enough to prevent it?  Though they didnt say that it seems the only other option they could possibly mean since i certainly tried going through every option on every menu lookign for it.  Disabling the windows bootloader and moving it to the bottom of the list doesnt work once i boot from windows, so i do that as infrequently as possible.  Windows alters the bootorder and enables itself as the primary bootloader every time.
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #6 –
Quote from: lq – on
Quote from: cat herders of linux – on
Yes.  You aren't listening and I explained it as plainly as possible.  Windows overwrite the settings when it boots, altering CMOS so that windows boots everytime.

lol,

i understood it very well.

Regardless of what this crappy M$ Windows does, you always have the option of using the UEFI boot manager.
is it then your assertion that the windows uefi boot manager is capable of booting linux and all i have to do is alter the machines uefi bootloader to make that happen?  ie add an entry to it?


it's a shame this machine won't recognize non-uefi bootlaoder from linux at all.
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #7 –
whatever it is that windows does, adding a password to cmos had no effect on it.
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #9 –
Quote from: cat herders of linux – on
My understanding is these nvme drive on pci adapter cards are readable by the os but not bootable at startup, such
that i would need a bootloader from another drive to be able to access it.  I was hoping someone here might know but perhaps i should try the windows fanboys at toms hardware and deal with their fuming disgust of my not wanting windows as the primary os on my pc.

RTFM:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03840403
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03840403#AbT3


"Those who can read have a clear advantage".
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #10 –
Clearly the post telling me to rtfm is inappropriate.   They are either not understanding the problem or simply can't understand the problem.  Who is that making such a post?

@lq if you have nothing useful to offer, you might be better off saying nothing.
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #11 –
Sometimes when i need windows for like a program that needs a driver or one that won't work in wine, i just boot up a WinPE live cd like this: https://www.hirensbootcd.org/

99% of the time you don't a full install of windows that would do the efi boot order like that

Or you can install Enterprise LTSC, they can't do it on that ;)

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #12 –
In the Linux world there is efibootmgr:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface
And in Windows there is bcdedit:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44919190/windows-equivalent-to-efibootmgr
According to that thread it can be fixed using bcdedit, although I haven't done that myself.
Some other general stuff I came across on the Arch Linux wiki while searching looks like it might possibly have helpful advice too, e.g.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows
This looks especially relevant:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Windows_changes_boot_order
(Reading the Tom's Hardware thread you linked above, and following the linked possible solution from that thread to an existing thread, they also suggest using bcdedit, so it sounds promising!)

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #13 –
Turns out i didn't disable the quick boot feature of windows under the power management settings.  Was sure i had.  certainly did for hibernate and disabled quickboot under cmos settings.  I guess windows was trying to enable quickboot and rewrote the cmos boot order in its attempt to enable quick boot.  
It is certainly disabled now and does not rewrite the cmos any longer.!!!!!
Cat Herders of Linux

Re: Questions about nvme drives in pci3 adapter slots x4 lanes pci slot

Reply #14 –
Quote from: cat herders of linux – on
Clearly the post telling me to rtfm is inappropriate.   They are either not understanding the problem or simply can't understand the problem.  Who is that making such a post?

@lq if you have nothing useful to offer, you might be better off saying nothing.

So you think a BIOS manual for YOUR HARDWARE is useless?
In your opinion, I should write what's in it again here in the forum because you're too lazy to read it yourself?

Do you have any other wishes?
Can I come to your place, do your laundry, cook for you and clean your place, because maybe you don't want to do that either?
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "