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Topic: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install (Read 2368 times) previous topic - next topic
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Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install without altering the pacman config. Somebody got angry and I totally get her/him.
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=artix
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ARTIX Dinit + SDDM + Enlightenment

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #1 –
No.

https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/choose-your-browser-carefully.html#firefox
https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/browsers.html#ff

Also:

https://artixlinux.org/download.php
Quote
Base ISOs allow for a fully customised installation, which is done in a TTY and is intended for knowledgeable users. This is the recommended way of installing Artix and the team will be happy to support any issue. An almost identical lowmem version found at the testing section below, can boot and install on machines with as little as 300MB of RAM.

Also, Firefox is available from unofficial repository omniverse for those who disregard blatant privacy issues of Firefox.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #2 –
The problem with modern browsers is that they take a ludicrous amount of time to build and block our pipeline for multiple hours. That's the main reason there isn't one by default.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #3 –
Some reviewers also cried EOS does not include pamac by default.  :D

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #4 –
I really don't understand these type of complaints about Artix. It is as it claims to be.....Simple. Fast. Systemd-free. There are usable browsers pre-installed which should be sufficient initially for all intents and purposes. Nothing prevents you from installing whatever browser you may choose. Artix isn't a system that tries to be "built for everyone" out of the box. I have used distros that try to be everything to everyone and I have to uninstall much that I personally have no use for, and install what I need. Artix just skips the uninstall part.  ;D

Best regards.
We should try to be kind to everyone.....we are all fighting some sort of battle.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #5 –
How can an irrelevant comment on DW be a proof that we need to change anything in the distribution?

Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
Jesse from Distrowatch recommends it.

So no reason to use it at all.

Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
Artix does not come with many pre-installed apps

Technically speaking Artix comes only with wanted packages, if you use the graphical installer, there is no reason to complain about the provided packages.

Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
That's weird

How is it? Is Firefox part of LSB or any standard now?


Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
I could fix the problem here but I do not like this.

Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
After a fresh install of any operating system one should not have to go and edit config files in order to be able to use it

This dude definitely never used Arch and it seems he always used the vanilla desktops and never connected to any authenticated network. THIS is weird.

Quote from: Random dude on DistroWatch
I then installed EndeavourOS which does not have this strange quirck...

If EndeavourOS fits his needs, why is he even trying Artix? How is it relevant to compare two distros based on the availability of Firefox?
Also, IIRC EndeavourOS has Arch repos by default so the solution is exactly the same.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #6 –
Quote from: strajder – on
No.

https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/choose-your-browser-carefully.html#firefox
https://digdeeper.neocities.org/ghost/browsers.html#ff
Not even vaguely a good reason.
There are many issues regarding privacy with so many browsers. Or to be more precise most versions of the three existent top level browsers that are reasonably functional.
Quote from: Dudemanguy – on
The problem with modern browsers is that they take a ludicrous amount of time to build and block our pipeline for multiple hours. That's the main reason there isn't one by default.
A good reason.


Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #7 –
Default are just that, defaults.

Apart from specialized LIVE distributions (like GPrated or some to crack WinXP password :D ), I always tend to REMOVE things installed by default. In many cases these are programs which are good for the job but not something I want and thus I replace most of them by my own selection (for better or worse).

Lets change Artix default web browser and include one for terminal and one for GUI.
For terminal I would go either for w3m or for lynx; for GUI I would go for Netsurf.
Problem solved, the supplied web browsers are minimal and extremely FAST.
 

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #8 –
Quote from: SGOrava – on
Lets change Artix default web browser and include one for terminal and one for GUI.
For terminal I would go either for w3m or for lynx; for GUI I would go for Netsurf.
Problem solved, the supplied web browsers are minimal and extremely FAST.
For terminal, I recommend elinks. It is not minimal, but it is actively developed and supports many features which can be configured or not on compilation. Also agree on lynx, it is (was?) traditionally included by default in many distros.

For GUI, Netsurf is a sane default, good idea.

Quote from: gripped – on
Not even vaguely a good reason.
There are many issues regarding privacy with so many browsers. Or to be more precise most versions of the three existent top level browsers that are reasonably functional.
In all graphical ISOs the decision was made to include browsers which are somehow "native" to the DE in question. Firefox does not fit that description. It is not tied to specific DE, nor even GNU/Linux in general.

As far as privacy goes, that is indeed a separate topic, when we go beyond the defaults, but should be taken into account when talking about Firefox. One of the splash screens in the graphical installer of Artix mentions two privacy-respecting browsers: Librewolf and Ungoogled Chromium. They are available from universe, but are better alternatives to Firefox and Chrome. Anyone who is concerned about privacy (which everyone should be today, sadly) should strongly consider those two browsers instead. According to one of the linked websites from my previous post, Librewolf still has some problems, but even like that it is better than Firefox.

There are some who respond to criticism of Firefox by switching the topic to "browser engine monopoly", thus advocating the use of Firefox despite privacy issues. This is of course a logical error (accidental or deliberate). Privacy should take precedence over anything else. Both unmodified Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox disrespect privacy. Their forks which are made with removing anti-privacy features in mind are better options, together with addons such as uBlock Origin.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Dudemanguy – on
The problem with modern browsers is that they take a ludicrous amount of time to build and block our pipeline for multiple hours. That's the main reason there isn't one by default.
Just tried to build firefox on 12-core Ryzen 5 1600, it took 1:45:19 (excluding source download time). Is it too much?
As for topic, qt5-webengine and qutebrowser based on it are already in repos
ARMtix

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #10 –
Yes, I can understand some people might want to use Firefox instead of another browser they possibly don't know.

What I don't get is how you can install a distro clearly labelled "not for beginners" and then get put off when you have to edit a configuration file. There are other good distros out there for his use case.
Basing a 6/10 rating on one's own inability to choose the right distro for one's needs is simply ludicrous.
Tuxedo Pulse
AMD Ryzen 5 4600H
16 GB RAM

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #11 –
One of the results of fame - you get to meet your haters as well as your fans!
firefox is in Omniverse, firefox-esr is in Universe, both of these are Artix repos although not enabled as default it is true. There are also numerous variants of firefox in the AUR, with assorted patches from KDE, Ubuntu, old ESR versions, beta and nightly builds and more. Plus you can just download a Linux build from the Mozilla website directly and follow their instructions to install it yourself. And if anyone has trouble doing this, they can of course ask for assistance here. Interestingly the reviewer did manage to install Firefox (although from the Arch repos, which was probably not the optimum solution as there might be brief times when deps are out of sync in terms of version) so it can't be that difficult.
 The review might make a useful observation for anyone who liked Firefox and was intending to use an iso unmodified to run as a live usb I suppose.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #12 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
Just tried to build firefox on 12-core Ryzen 5 1600, it took 1:45:19 (excluding source download time). Is it too much?
As for topic, qt5-webengine and qutebrowser based on it are already in repos

Really? That's considerably faster than I would have expected. Did you use the Arch PKGBUILD? It does like 2-3 builds for optimization reasons. I forgot what hardware the buildbot runs on, but it would take several hours at a minimum.

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Dudemanguy – on
Really? That's considerably faster than I would have expected. Did you use the Arch PKGBUILD? It does like 2-3 builds for optimization reasons. I forgot what hardware the buildbot runs on, but it would take several hours at a minimum.
Exactly, no changes were made
I also used to rebuild firefox on Odroid N2 with forced -j1. It took ~4-6 hours even in those conditions. Meanwhile qt5-webengine takes more than a day to build in the same conditions
ARMtix

Re: Firefox should definitely be available on a fresh install

Reply #14 –
The other things which e may be forgetting is the idea to use only Artix repositories on the build server.
And there is a change (I don`t remember correctly) that these big things may require a lot of Arch deps ?
Correct me if I am wrong.