A question to the Artix development team 23 June 2021, 14:35:59 Dear Artix Linux Developers, I have a couple of questions which are important to answer, so that we can understand each other correctly, because I do not want to cause problems to anyone, so if you have the time and desire to help me, please help me understand the following things:1. What is the license of Artix Linux? I can't find any reference to it in gitea or on the website. I could make a logical assumption about the licenses of the components that Artix Linux uses, but I prefer to talk to a person and ask for an exact answer instead of guessing and making approximate conclusions.2. If I want to make a distribution based on Artix Linux, can I do that? And if so, what license should I use?3. If I have to attribute, which one and where?Three simple questions. Also, to make it clear what I want to do I will explain my motivation. I met Artix Linux a year ago and I was really impressed by the way you guys treat your work! The problems users have been having on the forum are being fixed and more and more components are being added to Artix. I am an Artix user myself and use Runit and PipeWire, I really like its stability and security, but I feel that it requires a lot of experience and knowledge on the user side to install and use it, and that led me to the idea of creating a distribution for beginners that would be based on Artix and would have many useful applications! A driver installer, its own graphical installer (not based on Calamares, I wrote my own in Pascal and GTK2 using Lazarus and it already supports BTRFS), its own Wine wrapper which is in development, and much more for newbies! I want to make an easy to use and install distribution, free of systemd and pulseaudio, so that the user experience with Linux is pleasant, stable and safe from the start.Thank you for your time and understanding, respectfully, Simon Bright (ObscureXwing)
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #1 – 23 June 2021, 15:05:30 Question: and wouldn't it be much more beneficial/useful if those dummy newbies learned how to linux works? don't just clicking? I understand that they want to show other guys at school how beautiful wallpaper they have. I understand that reading the instructions is difficult, in addition, sometimes one has to think about it ... but they still remain stupid and uneducated ... which is a pity :/ if somebody don't want to learn anything, he should stay with Windows or Ubuntu (there are many Linux distributions for newbies) . such a person does not need a systemd-free distribution. he doesn't appreciate it.you didn't ask yourself the basic question: why did we build systemd-free archlinux and not e.g. systemd-free ubuntu? (here is systemd-free devuan)why did we choose the distribution for EXPERIENCED users? why intentionally don't we have any GUI (except installator)? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_Linux#Principles (and you want kill it ) Last Edit: 23 June 2021, 15:31:36 by alium 2 Likes
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #2 – 23 June 2021, 15:39:46 Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 14:35:591. What is the license of Artix Linux?Start here:https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.htmlthen here:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.htmlThe short answer: the specific license depends on the software package. Most of the GNU OS (often mistakenly called just "Linux") is licensed under the GNU GPL. Kernel, Linux, is mainly licensed under the v2 of GNU GPL, because its author, Linus Torvalds, wanted to allow tivoization.
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #3 – 23 June 2021, 15:49:57 Quote from: alium – on 23 June 2021, 15:05:30Question: and wouldn't it be much more beneficial/useful if those dummy newbies learned how to linux works? don't just clicking? I understand that they want to show other guys at school how beautiful wallpaper they have. I understand that reading the instructions is difficult, in addition, sometimes one has to think about it ... but they still remain stupid and uneducated ... which is a pity :/ if somebody don't want to learn anything, he should stay with Windows or Ubuntu (there are many Linux distributions for newbies) . such a person does not need a systemd-free distribution. he doesn't appreciate it.you didn't ask yourself the basic question: why did we build systemd-free archlinux and not e.g. systemd-free ubuntu? (here is systemd-free devuan)why did we choose the distribution for EXPERIENCED users? why intentionally don't we have any GUI (except installator)? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_Linux#Principles (and you want kill it )The world is mostly made up of people who are not interested in how computers work, which, in turn, is used for selfish purposes. This is used by websites to parasitize cookies, to mine cryptocurrencies using JavaScript, and is used by Microsoft to collect personal data from users. This has created a rotten market in which noteworthy operating systems based on the Linux kernel are in very little demand. For this reason, beautiful and user-friendly operating systems suffer from stability and performance problems (because the minds of their developers are busy with other things). So I want to make things better for Linux, because I believe that if we combine usability and beauty with good and sought-after components from well-known users, Linux will have a bright future and a large market share. Last Edit: 23 June 2021, 15:59:55 by ObscureXwing 1 Likes
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #4 – 23 June 2021, 15:53:51 Quote from: strajder – on 23 June 2021, 15:39:46Start here:https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.htmlhttps://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.htmlthen here:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.htmlThe short answer: the specific license depends on the software package. Most of the GNU OS (often mistakenly called just "Linux") is licensed under the GNU GPL. Kernel, Linux, is mainly licensed under the v2 of GNU GPL, because its author, Linus Torvalds, wanted to allow tivoization.Thanks for your answer, it's close to what I was really expecting to hear, I know that the kernel and other components are distributed mostly under the GPL, but I need to know for sure if Artix Linux uses any special licensing so I don't violate any copyrights
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #5 – 23 June 2021, 15:59:40 Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 15:49:57The world is mostly made up of people who are not interested in how computers workmaybe world of Android, Windows, and iOs, not linux...if people who are not interested in how computers work, they interesting not about pseudo war "systemd vs. systemd-free". they can use some of existing linux distributions, or? we removed systemd, because WE KNOW why, and we just like it not. your users will soon complain, that your distro is not fully compatible with archlinux.... because systemd missing (some Arch packages still use can use only systemd, packages from AUR...wiki is full of systemd...ohh, your users want not read wiki....so no wiki), so for newbies you will switch to archlinux.... ups..here is manjaro for those 'users' Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 15:49:57This has created a rotten market in which noteworthy operating systems based on the Linux kernel are in very little demand. little demand is because money money of microsoft/google/apple/oracle (corporations) vs. money of free softwareQuoteFor this reason, beautiful and user-friendly operating systems suffer from stability and performance problems (because the minds of their developers are busy with other things). for example which? I installed last month Ubuntu and OpenSuSe on laptops, both are very good distribution, beautiful and without performace problems...for example. we can't forbid you fork us, but maintaining "distribution" (we can't talk about distribution, you'll probably just create your own ISO with some of your gtk2 tools) is very demanding for the whole team of peoples. But as one man show??? Last Edit: 23 June 2021, 16:23:43 by alium
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #6 – 23 June 2021, 16:07:38 Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 15:49:57The world is mostly made up of people who are not interested in how computers work ,,,The world was created by thinking people for people to learn.MfG
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #7 – 23 June 2021, 16:20:25 just for info, KDE update takes several hours, compilation of rust on a powerful machine 2.5 hours, chromium compilation up to 8 hours, rebuild python packages (every year new major version) takes 3 DAYS, and it's a little nightmare! I'm writing this just for info, let you know what to count on. But i don't think, that you want maintaining distribution...my offer: you can easily create your repo with your tools for newbies, put a link here, we will be happy to put it on our wiki. and newbies who don't care how it works can be bombarded with questions about what and how all the time (not in our forum!!). That's a great post on how to help Linux, don't you think? You can patiently explain for hours where to click (without irony or ridicule) .
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #8 – 23 June 2021, 16:25:27 Please note that this is my personal opinion and in no way represent Artix as a whole.Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 14:35:591. What is the license of Artix Linux? I can't find any reference to it in gitea or on the website. I could make a logical assumption about the licenses of the components that Artix Linux uses, but I prefer to talk to a person and ask for an exact answer instead of guessing and making approximate conclusions.I think this is a difficult question to answer. Artix, like a lot of Linux distributions, is made up of a lot of software. And because Linux is GPL v2 or GCC is GPL v3 does that mean Artix as a whole is GPL? I don't think so. Since there are different components that make up Artix which are not GPL (e.g. OpenRC is BSD-2), and they are separate software. At the very least, all of our core packages should be using FSF/OSI-approved licenses.See also: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregationHowever, we release all of our packages' build scripts, so if one wants to make their own distribution based on Artix or want to know how we build our packages, they can start from there.See: https://gitea.artixlinux.org/artixlinuxQuote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 14:35:592. If I want to make a distribution based on Artix Linux, can I do that? And if so, what license should I use?Since Artix itself is a distribution based on Arch Linux, I don't see why you can't do that. See above for "what license should I use?". The only catch would be please don't misrepresent the project as an Artix-endorsed project. If someone requests a support to Artix and the fault was from a modification by downstream, we won't be able to answer the problem since we can't reproduce the problem (just like the Arch team probably experienced support requests from people using Antergos/Endeavour, Manjaro, or even Artix, though I haven't heard about the last one).Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 14:35:593. If I have to attribute, which one and where?Like on our mainsite, you can just say, "<name> Linux, Artix-based distribution". Just don't misrepresent your project as an Artix-endorsed project.Good luck!
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #9 – 23 June 2021, 16:29:07 Quote from: ObscureXwing – on 23 June 2021, 15:49:57This has created a rotten market in which noteworthy operating systems based on the Linux kernel are in very little demand.Quote from: alium – on 23 June 2021, 15:59:40little demand is because money money of microsoft vs. money of free softwareI'd argue that the term "market" is a slippery slope.Rather, I'd say that many of the computer users mainly focus on consumerism, tightly related to proprietary OSes, so they tend to ignore GNU/Linux or develop misconceptions about it. Lately there have been attempts to "bridge the gap", personified in Canonical and RedHat, but I hope we all agree that's something harmful to Free software community. 1 Likes
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #10 – 23 June 2021, 16:37:25 Quote from: alium – on 23 June 2021, 15:59:40maybe world of Android, Windows, and iOs, not linux...if people who are not interested in how computers work, they interesting not about pseudo war "systemd vs. systemd-free". they can use some of existing linux distributions, or? we removed systemd, because WE KNOW why, and we just like it not. your users will soon complain, that your distro is not fully compatible with archlinux.... because systemd missing (some Arch packages still use can use only systemd, packages from AUR...wiki is full of systemd...ohh, your users want read wiki....so no wiki), so for newbies you will switch to archlinux.... ups..here is manjaro for those 'users' little demand is because money money of microsoft vs. money of free softwarefor example which? I installed last month Ubuntu and OpenSuSe on laptops, both are very good distribution, beautiful and without performace problems...for example. we can't forbid you fork us, but maintaining "distribution" (we can't talk about distribution, you'll probably just create your own ISO with some of your gtk2 tools) is very demanding for the whole team of peoples. But as one man show??? You shouldn't be so toxic. If people have problems - I am interested in helping them, I know that I am not a superman and do not have the opportunity to do something perfect, but I know that I have enough persistence to make this world a little bit better, over time I will have my own repositories if you "care" so much, and will have my own wiki. Also, I am absolutely not interested in "wars", I chose Runit as the init system not because systemd is "so bad". I chose it for security reasons.And I know perfectly well that not all packages are currently supported from the AUR, but I can easily build a great many packages without any errors, you say as if 90% of packages depend on systemd, but this is not soBesides, as far as I know, sometimes this problem can be solved by replacing systemd with elogind in the dependencies before compilation, of course this solution will not always help, however, I do all my usual things on Artix and put my friends on it, and they also have no problemsAnd you say that Ubuntu has no problems, but there are a lot of them, the GNOME desktop environment is used, which became heavy after the third version, snap packages that have telemetry and a bunch of vulnerabilities, which are sometimes very noticeably eliminated after the upstream. ubuntu has stability problems because the package base is based on Debian Unstable, of course there were intermediate releases, but bugs still remain. A friend of mine recently was unable to install Manjaro next to Windows 7 (there was a bug in the installer), which indicates problems with the installer, so I'm trying to take all aspects together and make the system better out of the box. For this and many other reasons, I chose Mate as the desktop environment, I chose Runit as the initialization system, I chose PipeWire as the sound server, and wrote my own installer and other programs. If you consider my desire to use Artix Linux as the basis for my own distribution as a manifestation of disrespect, then you should not think so. Because the desire to create my own distribution kit based on Artix arose only because of my respect for the Artix Linux developers and the desire to improve the position of Linux on the market. Why do you perceive the desire to make the world a better place in this way as necessarily bad? You seem to have been bitten by infectious zombies, and now you bite back, thinking that this is necessarily bad.
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #11 – 23 June 2021, 16:44:19 toxic...poison... zombies... new marxist newspeak? i am very sorry, i just worte what i think... i did it before, i will do it in future. If you like it not, your problem your idea is for ,me as part of artix team just wrong, you must not crying because i wrote it
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #12 – 23 June 2021, 16:49:48 I wish good luck positioning yourself in"the market".As for artix linux, and speaking for myself, there is no thought or intention wasted on markets.We provide a linux distro, pacman based without systemd, which has been the initial goal and mission, and was strictly speaking for private use originally.Now artix has grown, which has been a fun ride.Is your fork whatever you intend a commercial attempt? If that is the case, cooperation would be very limited, I am afraid. 3 Likes
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #13 – 23 June 2021, 16:57:34 Quote from: konimex – on 23 June 2021, 16:25:27Please note that this is my personal opinion and in no way represent Artix as a whole.I think this is a difficult question to answer. Artix, like a lot of Linux distributions, is made up of a lot of software. And because Linux is GPL v2 or GCC is GPL v3 does that mean Artix as a whole is GPL? I don't think so. Since there are different components that make up Artix which are not GPL (e.g. OpenRC is BSD-2), and they are separate software. At the very least, all of our core packages should be using FSF/OSI-approved licenses.See also: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregationHowever, we release all of our packages' build scripts, so if one wants to make their own distribution based on Artix or want to know how we build our packages, they can start from there.See: https://gitea.artixlinux.org/artixlinuxSince Artix itself is a distribution based on Arch Linux, I don't see why you can't do that. See above for "what license should I use?". The only catch would be please don't misrepresent the project as an Artix-endorsed project. If someone requests a support to Artix and the fault was from a modification by downstream, we won't be able to answer the problem since we can't reproduce the problem (just like the Arch team probably experienced support requests from people using Antergos/Endeavour, Manjaro, or even Artix, though I haven't heard about the last one).Like on our mainsite, you can just say, "<name> Linux, Artix-based distribution". Just don't misrepresent your project as an Artix-endorsed project.Good luck!Ok, I think I understand, I cannot specify any specific license, because it depends on the components, thanks for the explanationAnd of course I understand your position, because if the distribution contains software developed / compiled not by your guys, then I, as the developer of this software, bear responsibility for this! It's easy enough to understand, don't worry about it, I won't give you problems, and of course, I will definitely point out that my distribution is based on Artix, I show you respect and there is no reason for me to somehow distort the views of users ! Thanks for your time and answering my questions! have a nice day !
Re: A question to the Artix development team Reply #14 – 23 June 2021, 17:05:33 Quote from: artoo – on 23 June 2021, 16:49:48I wish good luck positioning yourself in"the market".As for artix linux, and speaking for myself, there is no thought or intention wasted on markets.We provide a linux distro, pacman based without systemd, which has been the initial goal and mission, and was strictly speaking for private use originally.Now artix has grown, which has been a fun ride.Is your fork whatever you intend a commercial attempt? If that is the case, cooperation would be very limited, I am afraid.The project will be free, just like Artix, I will not charge users for downloading or using my software, my programs will also be available on GitHub as opensource software. And I'm not going to "position" myself or the distribution on the market in the light in which you might imagine it, I will not try to squeeze into the standards, with time you will understand what I mean