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Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Greetings Everyone,

I have been thinking about switching from a combo of Openbox + Tint2 to FVWM 3, but before doing the "big jump" (with the help of the holidays) I was wondering if someone who is already using it could answer me some questions.

- How is FVWM3's multi-monitor support? Does it have any limitations or quirks I should know about?
- I saw I can substitute Tint2 with FVWM's buttons and by "swallowing" stalonetray, which seems really handy. I am used to have tint2 showing on all screens, would it be possible to do something like this with FVWM too?
- I tried maximizing windows on FVWM3 (default config) and they just resize to the full screen (obviously) but still stay "resizable", I couldn't find much about it in the documentation (which I could only read fragments of, due to things happening).

A word of note: I work from a laptop, so the number of screens is always changing, I have no idea if this could give issues with FVWM3.

FVWM3's customizability is really stimulating (united with the fact that, differently from OpenBox, it's still actively developed), but I'm still a bit on the line, if that makes sense, so I'm looking for some people's experiences.

Thank you everyone for the help in advance, and for listening (or in this case, reading) my ramblings.

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #1 –
fvwm3 and stalonetray are in our repos and work nice and stable, and fvwm3 is extremely adaptable.
Working with multiple monitors is not a problem, though I never tried a dynamic setup for changes.
For the maximizing you might be able to turn off the decoration and set a shortcut to re-enable it, but you'd have to test that r search online.

artist
Linux is simple; use Artix, or Submit Your System To Evil Malicious D(a)emons

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #3 –
There is A LOT in FVWM. I've also been debating on whether having a panel at all is necessary.

Also due to how many things are happening in my life right now, I haven't had any time to check anything.

I made a Hydrapaper clone in python (cause I'm that kind of person) and now I'm slowly combing through the manual and getting thoroughly confused  :D

I would love to see someone's setup, out of curiosity (besides the ones I can find on "image search")

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Penaz – on
- How is FVWM3's multi-monitor support? Does it have any limitations or quirks I should know about?

Please read this:  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/878

Note that fvwm3 supports per-monitor desktops as well as global ones, via the `DesktopConfiguration` command.  But I've documented it in the link I've just given.

Quote from: Penaz – on
- I saw I can substitute Tint2 with FVWM's buttons and by "swallowing" stalonetray, which seems really handy. I am used to have tint2 showing on all screens, would it be possible to do something like this with FVWM too?

Yes -- again, that's  FvwmButtons configuration.  The default configuration will help you here:  https://www.fvwm.org/Wiki/DefaultConfig/

Quote from: Penaz – on
- I tried maximizing windows on FVWM3 (default config) and they just resize to the full screen (obviously) but still stay "resizable", I couldn't find much about it in the documentation (which I could only read fragments of, due to things happening).

Maximzing a window is just registering a state in fvwm, it doesn't imply anything special.  Can you elaborate more on what you're referring to here, so I can help?

Kindly,
Thomas Adam

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #6 –
Quote from: ThomasAdam – on
Please read this:  https://github.com/fvwmorg/fvwm3/discussions/878

Note that fvwm3 supports per-monitor desktops as well as global ones, via the `DesktopConfiguration` command.  But I've documented it in the link I've just given.

Thank you, I had a small issue with EdgeScrolling which was easy to fix (I don't use the viewport functionality, thus each workspace is 1x1 pages large).

Quote from: ThomasAdam – on
Yes -- again, that's  FvwmButtons configuration.  The default configuration will help you here:  https://www.fvwm.org/Wiki/DefaultConfig/

Thanks for the link! I wonder if it is possible to extend this "DIY panel" on each screen, where each panel shows the windows that are in each screen (like Tint2 does).

Quote from: ThomasAdam – on
Maximzing a window is just registering a state in fvwm, it doesn't imply anything special.  Can you elaborate more on what you're referring to here, so I can help?

In my current setup, when I maximize a window, I'm not able to resize it unless i "unmaximize" (or "restore") it. Allowing me to change which screen it's shown on by dragging the title bar, and having it "snap and auto-resize" to the target screen.

Not sure if my issue was due to my confusion, cause I saw the "resize" cursor, which also shows when you're Edge-Scrolling.

Hopefully I managed to express myself correctly (English is not my mother tongue), FVWM3 is really piquing my interest and I think I should study it more deeply (sadly things are taking time away from me, between events and health woes).

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Penaz – on
In my current setup, when I maximize a window, I'm not able to resize it unless i "unmaximize" (or "restore") it. Allowing me to change which screen it's shown on by dragging the title bar, and having it "snap and auto-resize" to the target screen.

You'd need to show me your current fvwm config, as it's perfectly possible,  and normal. to do exactly as you describe.  I do, for instance.

Thomas

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #8 –
Quote from: ThomasAdam – on
You'd need to show me your current fvwm config, as it's perfectly possible,  and normal. to do exactly as you describe.  I do, for instance.

Thomas

At the moment I'm just exploring the default configuration (/usr/share/fvwm3/default-config) and trying to understand if everything I want to do is doable in FVWM3 (which seems very much like it is).

After I make heads and tails of how things work, I will dive into making a configuration that suits my needs, which should be a lot of fun (I love tinkering with this kind of things).

I've tried editing the right bar as a test, to reduce the number of workspaces to two, but it doesn't seem to form properly afterwards (it starts as many mini-windows): I'm sure I'm missing something. I may take the chance that I'm off work to have two or three evenings and begin experimenting, wiki on one side and config file on the other.

This is completely new to me, but so was vim when I started tinkering with it (now NeoVim is my daily driver for work), so I'll try to think of FVWM3 as the "Vim/Emacs of WMs": I just need to understand the "how" and from there everything will be easier.

Thanks for reassuring me that most of what I want is already available or can somehow be coded in FVWM3.

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Penaz – on
I would love to see someone's setup, out of curiosity (besides the ones I can find on "image search")

I'm a long-time Fvwm2 user - since 1998. I haven't tried Fvwm3, so I don't know how well my current config would help. I use FvwmButtons to build my "panel". So, it doesn't have things like the context menu dialog for adding things to it, though it wouldn't surprise me if you could build something like that. That's the thing about Fvwm - it has a lot of tools, so you can do a lot of things if you can find something already built, or make it yourself. I've been so happy with my setup that I haven't dug into a lot of the dynamic things, and newer things. But that's another plus for Fvwm - my config is very much the same as what I was using 27 years ago. I really like that they don't just pull the rug out from under me.

I'm really curious about how Fvwm3 is treating CSD (client-side decoration). I hate CSD!  :P

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #10 –
Quote from: just_jed – on
I'm a long-time Fvwm2 user - since 1998. I haven't tried Fvwm3, so I don't know how well my current config would help. I use FvwmButtons to build my "panel". So, it doesn't have things like the context menu dialog for adding things to it, though it wouldn't surprise me if you could build something like that. That's the thing about Fvwm - it has a lot of tools, so you can do a lot of things if you can find something already built, or make it yourself. I've been so happy with my setup that I haven't dug into a lot of the dynamic things, and newer things. But that's another plus for Fvwm - my config is very much the same as what I was using 27 years ago. I really like that they don't just pull the rug out from under me.

I'm really curious about how Fvwm3 is treating CSD (client-side decoration). I hate CSD!  :P

From what I've heard, FVWM3 is quite backwards-compatible with FVWM2 configuration (I think the default config is based on FVWM2 tools too).

Having the same config for 27 years may be a testament to how solid the project is. I'm really impressed! Also considering you named FvwmButtons (which exists in FVWM3 too) I'm curious to see how your config is and what effort would be needed for a FVWM3 conversion.

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #11 –
Here ya go!

I almost never look at these files. Just now, the couple I looked at seem a bit crufty. Well, I don't always remember why I did something a particular way, and when I first created this, I was learning it as I went. Still, it serves me well. I don't need anything more complicated.

The panel is created by having FvwmButtons swallow useful things, such FvwmIconMan.

Don't know why I named the main menu "Smaug" - might have been the hostname at the time.

One thing I really like about it is the ability to create menus that pop up when clicking anywhere on the root window. I don't have to move the mouse over to a corner. You could do a hotkey for those too - maybe I did, and I don't remember. I have 3 "root" menus, one for left, middle, and right mouse buttons.

the .fvwm/icons directory is created and used by the XDG menu utility. You can ignore that. I wish I could remember all that goes into the XDG menu, but I think it's really just a script which is either supplied in the package, or you can get it from the Fvwm site. I didn't even use it until a couple years ago, and then only because I couldn't remember all the stuff that MATE brings along.

One thing to note also is that I run mate-settings-daemon right away. Some things in the desktop didn't work until I did that. I don't remember which things those were. Relatively speaking, that's a "new" problem - didn't have it back when I was running RH, and I don't think in the early days of Ubuntu either. If you don't use MATE, comment that out, and maybe look for an equivalent from a DE that you like. Hmm, thinking about it, one thing for sure was that Gtk apps didn't get styled using my settings (and/or theme from MATE) unless I ran that.

We'll see if I can hit the limits here on attached files. :) Well, it doesn't allow tarballs. Okay, on to OneDrive.
Tarball of my .fvwm/ directory

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #12 –
Very interesting.

Quote from: just_jed – on
Don't know why I named the main menu "Smaug" - might have been the hostname at the time.

Smaug: hoarder of all programs. I will stand by this explanation I just made up  ;D

When I have some more time (probably tonight) I'll give it a look and see if I can make it work with FVWM3, which I think it will. Thank you!
 

Re: Thinking of switching to FVWM3

Reply #13 –
You'll probably get some errors. Mainly missing icons for the title bar. I also had to do a little script to delay starting one applet, because there's enough variance in when the three "tray" apps instantiate that I wasn't getting consistent placement in stalonetray.

Code: [Select]
$ cat bin/delay_vol_icon
#!/bin/bash
sleep 4
exec /usr/bin/mate-volume-control-status-icon

And
Code: [Select]
$ cat .stalonetrayrc
decorations none
kludges force_icons_size
icon_size 24
no_shrink true
background "#C4A000"
skip_taskbar true
#withdrawn true
dockapp_mode simple
icon_gravity SE
grow_gravity NW
geometry 3x3
tint_color black
tint_level 2
decorations border

"dmenu" is provided by the suckless-tools package, you could substitute rofi.

gmpc is not available in Arch.