Skip to main content
Topic: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing... (Read 14821 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #75
https://archive.is/yq8C8 - The Latest X.Org Server Activity Are A Lot Of Code Reverts

New developments, the hitpiece of/by Moronix (by Michael of Phoronix)!

It seems that attacks were not enough, Enrico showed that he'll actually continue working on this, so as of now aligned interests of corporate linux ecosystem must've changed their tactics, because this article isn't just a report, about "removing/revert bad quality code", oh no, it's direct smear campaign and it's written like a 70s communist propaganda piece, but let's move back a bit, let's address the one main argument our Moronix article author is actually "concerned" about:

Many Phoronix readers have been asking why I haven't been covering news of the "X11Libre" fork of the X.Org Server or if I somehow missed it... No, simply a vote of no confidence. It's highly unlikely to succeed long-term given the very limited experienced developers / resources and none of the major Linux stakeholders (companies) backing it.

We absolutely don't need corporate backing to have a fucking functional software. Hyprland is the main example of this, but this argument was just a smokescreen. He's also had no confidence about Enrico actually delivering (or at least trying to), but let's turn back a little bit

https://archive.is/lKVGF - 13 June 2024 at 09:51 AM - Positive report, marking that Enrico is building his automated testing suite
https://archive.is/zS2bY - 22 July 2024 at 12:11 PM - Positive report, to the point of almost glazing Enrico with this line: Open-source developer Enrico Weigelt has in recent months taken to near single-handedly maintain and further enhance the aging X.Org Server codebase
https://archive.ph/4SG1t - 1 January 2025 at 11:53 AM - Neutral report, about Enrico being one of the notable people around progress of X.Org...

Gee I wonder, where is this lack of confidence that Enrico simply is not capable of going through alone, because there's actually nothing of note if we were to backtrack to the previous articles about Enrico.

About Freedesktop removing the commits... It's just pathetic. Imagine Enrico's work merged throughout almost 2 years, which surely mustve been checked, approved and upstream with maintai.. I'm sorry, repo gatekeepers full intent at that time that it was actually functional and good, as for the copyright and ownership, it was almost 2 YEARS of shit being STALE, and I think that if some one of those RH fuckers asked Enrico, this could've been resolved amicably. Do you really think they care about that? Nope. It's clear that the code is not "bad" per se, it's just that they've deemed Enrico as persona non grata, and everything that he did needs to go.

As for the so-called breakage, https://archive.is/absTh#note_2801285 - It's clear that they've wanted to get rid of him, but they wanted to do it with the angle of Enrico being incompetent, but take a look here, the entire fucking randr saga is shitshow meant to paint him in bad light, but they didn't think that there were actually people defending him.

Take what you want, but to me, the intent was clear - Make his fork and effort less palatable for normies, that don't know nuances of the whole story...

I'm sorry, but I'm going a bit more nuclear on Michael's behaviour here, so as this is just my own 2 cents so I'm marking this as offtopic:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If this post was too aggressive, moderators can remove it, I specifically wanted to say everything without censoring myself...

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #76
Gee I wonder, where is this lack of confidence that Enrico simply is not capable of going through alone, because there's actually nothing of note if we were to backtrack to the previous articles about Enrico.
I saw this this bug report on one of his commits earlier. There's a lengthy discussion there, with some people saying Enrico has submitted untested crap code, and some others being more understanding. In any case, this commit was bad and caused other developers extra work and headache. Some suggest it was not an isolated insident.

No one's perfect, of course. I'm just mentioning this as more background to why he perhaps wasn't liked at Xorg. Nobody likes debugging either, especially if you have  to debug something you wished didn't even exist.

EDIT: I just realized Shoun2137 linked the same thing...

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #77
We absolutely don't need corporate backing to have a fucking functional software. Hyprland is the main example of this, but this argument was just a smokescreen.
That's bad example IMO. You could as well name any suckless project with same success (actually, if you name sbase, it would have more weight since it had actual use in chromeos).
Really successfull widely used examples are curl and ffmpeg
ARMtix
If you need to contact me, use email

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #78
We absolutely don't need corporate backing to have a fucking functional software. Hyprland is the main example of this, but this argument was just a smokescreen.
That's bad example IMO. You could as well name any suckless project with same success (actually, if you name sbase, it would have more weight since it had actual use in chromeos).
Really successfull widely used examples are curl and ffmpeg
I was considering it from the perspective of treatment by Freedesktop, as Hyprland/Vaxry was also shunned and subjected to a harassment for things he never did, but this also doesn't exactly exclude any other software made in this vein, so I think my point still stands. It's a matter of keeping it within the context of familiarity, considering how Enrico was attacked with similar tactics, just like Vaxry.

 

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #79
https://archive.is/yq8C8 - The Latest X.Org Server Activity Are A Lot Of Code Reverts

New developments, the hitpiece of/by Moronix (by Michael of Phoronix)!

It seems that attacks were not enough, Enrico showed that he'll actually continue working on this, so as of now aligned interests of corporate linux ecosystem must've changed their tactics, because this article isn't just a report, about "removing/revert bad quality code", oh no, it's direct smear campaign and it's written like a 70s communist propaganda piece, but let's move back a bit, let's address the one main argument our Moronix article author is actually "concerned" about:

Many Phoronix readers have been asking why I haven't been covering news of the "X11Libre" fork of the X.Org Server or if I somehow missed it... No, simply a vote of no confidence. It's highly unlikely to succeed long-term given the very limited experienced developers / resources and none of the major Linux stakeholders (companies) backing it.

We absolutely don't need corporate backing to have a fucking functional software. Hyprland is the main example of this, but this argument was just a smokescreen. He's also had no confidence about Enrico actually delivering (or at least trying to), but let's turn back a little bit

https://archive.is/lKVGF - 13 June 2024 at 09:51 AM - Positive report, marking that Enrico is building his automated testing suite
https://archive.is/zS2bY - 22 July 2024 at 12:11 PM - Positive report, to the point of almost glazing Enrico with this line: Open-source developer Enrico Weigelt has in recent months taken to near single-handedly maintain and further enhance the aging X.Org Server codebase
https://archive.ph/4SG1t - 1 January 2025 at 11:53 AM - Neutral report, about Enrico being one of the notable people around progress of X.Org...

Gee I wonder, where is this lack of confidence that Enrico simply is not capable of going through alone, because there's actually nothing of note if we were to backtrack to the previous articles about Enrico.

About Freedesktop removing the commits... It's just pathetic. Imagine Enrico's work merged throughout almost 2 years, which surely mustve been checked, approved and upstream with maintai.. I'm sorry, repo gatekeepers full intent at that time that it was actually functional and good, as for the copyright and ownership, it was almost 2 YEARS of shit being STALE, and I think that if some one of those RH fuckers asked Enrico, this could've been resolved amicably. Do you really think they care about that? Nope. It's clear that the code is not "bad" per se, it's just that they've deemed Enrico as persona non grata, and everything that he did needs to go.

As for the so-called breakage, https://archive.is/absTh#note_2801285 - It's clear that they've wanted to get rid of him, but they wanted to do it with the angle of Enrico being incompetent, but take a look here, the entire fucking randr saga is shitshow meant to paint him in bad light, but they didn't think that there were actually people defending him.

Take what you want, but to me, the intent was clear - Make his fork and effort less palatable for normies, that don't know nuances of the whole story...

I'm sorry, but I'm going a bit more nuclear on Michael's behaviour here, so as this is just my own 2 cents so I'm marking this as offtopic:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If this post was too aggressive, moderators can remove it, I specifically wanted to say everything without censoring myself...

They can cry all they want, but if he was such a bad and incompetent programmer then why accept his commits in the first place.

They were just trying to find anything that they can make use of to get rid of him. Things breaking is expected of a developer/experimental branch. Another example is getting mad at him for not replying, and when call out that his (Metux) response was within 24 hours, he (the guy who made a hissy fit(forgot his name)) then played it off. The contributor (Metux) if I remember correctly was a volunteer. They're not entitled to have him on call.

They are playing for optics. They will as per usual tactics and antics of the as per usual suspects rely that the people reading their "news" are ill informed or willing to gobble up everything they throw without question/skepticism.

The fact that everyone is colluding seems to me that they're afraid of competition.

Personally I'm neutral with Xlibre and Wayland. But I think I will root for Xlibre just because of this.

Already testing Xlibre by use of dwm.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #80

They can cry all they want, but if he was such a bad and incompetent programmer then why accept his commits in the first place.


the truth is, all this gossip is useless.  Lets just move forward with libreX and be happy to have a new tool at our disposal.  Let the spitballs fly elsewhere.  BTW - Linus was a virtually incompetent coder when he began.  Linux is a ***social*** movement, not a technological one.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #81
I've noticed some XLibre related question in IRC #artix.
Please find the available info here.

Nvidia:
Some commit have been done of which the latest is:
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/commit/fa7cc111e71c46dabae24c6a60fcbb3b21f270cc:
this is specifically for NVidia proprietary driver: they're again lagging
behind a year, doing at least some minimal cleanup of their code base.
All attempts to get in direct contact with them have failed.


Feedback about what works with XLibre and what does not is welcome, and please add if the same works with xorg or not.

D-BUS:
There's a discussion about this in which I've given my input:
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/issues/156

Update:
Feedback from a Gentoo user: 575.57.08 works.

xorg.conf needs:
Section "ServerFlags"
Option "IgnoreABI" "true"
EndSection

artist

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #82
One day soon they will complain the kernel runs as root.  The solution to running X as root is to make sure X is secure and proper use of SUID

FWIW - just 2 weeks ago we had trouble with Wayland because its IPC sucks.  IPC is built into X, if I understand correctly, so I see little benefit to duplicating this function.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #83
the truth is, all this gossip is useless.  Lets just move forward with libreX and be happy to have a new tool at our disposal.  Let the spitballs fly elsewhere.
Summed up what I was going for perfectly.

BTW - Linus was a virtually incompetent coder when he began.  Linux is a ***social*** movement, not a technological one.
Metux only needs to do the grind. And hopefully other devs step in too. I would if I could, but most "programming" I can do is edit dwm/dwl config files.

So far no issues with Xlibre itself. I can't use the programs I like to use, but it's only foot terminal and yambar. I prefer those, but that's for another thread.


Feedback about what works with XLibre and what does not is welcome, and please add if the same works with xorg or not.

The issues may start propping up more once the code cleanup is done and/or once he starts pushing breaking changes.
For clarity, should this be in a separate thread?

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #84
The issues may start propping up more once the code cleanup is done and/or once he starts pushing breaking changes.
For clarity, should this be in a separate thread?

A lot of cleanup, fixing and enhancing has already been performed and test.ed

I intend to create a separate thread once we move from staging to testing, and also clarify more then.

artist

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #85
One day soon they will complain the kernel runs as root.  The solution to running X as root is to make sure X is secure and proper use of SUID
Xenocara actually fixes it. I hope they will collaborate with xlibre
ARMtix
If you need to contact me, use email

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #86
Feedback about what works with XLibre and what does not is welcome, and please add if the same works with xorg or not.

As long as the sticky, smelly Wayland shit sticks to qt5*, qt6*, conky!!!! (lol) and other packages, XLibre is nothing more than a waste of time.
"Wer alles kann, macht nichts richtig"

Artix USE="runit openrc slim openbox lxde gtk2 qt4 qt5 qt6 conky
-gtk3 -gtk4 -adwaita{cursors,themes,icons} -gnome3 -kde -plasma -wayland "


Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #88
Quote
even though there isn't a product for me to use, just yet.
There is if you are using the right distro( or build your own 'product', not too hard.)
But thanks for the link.

Good job devs (@Artist)  on Artix being ahead of the curve by providing packages and engaging with the project.
Things seem to progressing there apace now and I'm becoming more hopeful that XLibre is the project to keep X viable into the future.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #89
The issues may start propping up more once the code cleanup is done and/or once he starts pushing breaking changes.
For clarity, should this be in a separate thread?

A lot of cleanup, fixing and enhancing has already been performed and test.ed

I intend to create a separate thread once we move from staging to testing, and also clarify more then.

artist

Got it. Thanks.