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Topic: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of (Read 7153 times) previous topic - next topic
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Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

When systemd first came out quite a few of us were worried where this (so called) init system would take Linux. It's bad enough window's having both a keylogger and mouse tracker tied to a crappy ai that sends data back to ms but now it looks like some Linux users will have to be dealing with something similar.

 https://forum.openmandriva.org/t/systemd-should-we-really-be-concerned-about-this/7548

I'm sure this is just an experimental stage to see what they can get away with. What if garbage like this is built directly into the kernel?Don't even want to think what will happen to Linux if this progresses.


All these sudden changes within Linux itself should raise eyebrows. Sure things can be forked. Sure there are really good honest developers out there that will make an effort to keep Linux from the corruption, But how long can they hold out from the greedy and power hungry corporations that that seek nothing but complete control?

For the past 2 decades I notice the entire world changing at a highly accelerated pass and not in a positive way. To be honest, I don't like where it's heading. Seems that everything good is being torn down or destroyed and replaced with crap. Sad that Linux may be the next victim. Even more sad is that most users will probably accept Linux being spyware just like widows. I for one won't.......

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #1 –
Quote
Gutting out SystemD can be a PITA…I tried Artix over the weekend(that flaky nonsense is not for me)

 :(

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #2 –
Quote
Gutting out SystemD can be a PITA…I tried Artix over the weekend(that flaky nonsense is not for me)

When you build an Operating system around a virus such as systemd the entire operating system becomes that virus.

Artix hasn't gutted anything. Instead it has successfully preserved what Linux is suppose to be.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #3 –
Not surprising at all, it was a goal all along rather than accidental side-effect. You have to be truly mad to use systemd, I would rather install BSD than use it.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #4 –
Did someone check if pure Arch has stuff like this?
EDIT: Someone in the original YouTube post already checked and it does affect Arch:
Youtube link

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #6 –
Quote from: dpx – on
Somewhat related, KeyLogger using eBPF written in Rust
https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/1h5mqn5/tamanoir_a_keylogger_using_ebpf_written_in_rust/
https://github.com/pythops/tamanoir

Any idea why
a) Kernel allowed this at all?
b) How to disable eBPF permanently?


Why would the kernel not allow it?  There are very good use cases  for key logging and FWIW, how would you propose the Kernel stop it?  I find this highly suspect.  How can you build a user space program that prempts the kernel level ip filters?  As I understand the architecture, that makes no sense, systemd or not.  Nothing can get between the ethernet driver (which is a kernel module usually) and the kernel.  Unless it is running out of EFI for the CPU back doors, it shouldn't be possible, systemd or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netfilter

FWIW - I don't trust messages where text is turned into raster images.  There are too many emotionally unstable people in these situation, and it doesn't help get to the root of things.  Systemd can create boot logger and network filters on the user level.  It doesn't need the kernel to help it.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #7 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Why would the kernel not allow it?

Because it creates easy to exploit attack vector that isn't really needed?

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There are very good use cases  for key logging and FWIW,

Really? Please give one legal example where key logging makes sense.

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how would you propose the Kernel stop it?  I find this highly suspect.

Kernel shouldn't have implemented this in the first place.

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How can you build a user space program that prempts the kernel level ip filters?

... because we didn't have IP filters before this abomination?

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As I understand the architecture, that makes no sense, systemd or not.

Exactly.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #8 –
Quote
Really? Please give one legal example where key logging makes sense.

When I have 400+ systems in banks where banking regulations REQUIRE it as part of the banking regulation to prevent money laundering

Also well as use cases in Nuclear Reactors, Military Vehicles, Aircraft, City and State government departments of various types and kinds, including jails .... etc etc etc

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #9 –
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Kernel shouldn't have implemented this in the first place.

I am trying not to be rude here but to me this means you just do not understand the basics.  The Kernel is not a magic box.  It takes inputs, like from keyboards, or a network, and it produces outputs and side effects... like any other process in the universe.  In this case, those OUTPUTS have to be made available to user space applications, indiscriminately,  for the computer to create outputs and desired side effects.

Computers exist within the context of universal physics and informational science theory.

Anything can be a keylogger... like bash History, for example.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #10 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Quote
Really? Please give one legal example where key logging makes sense.

When I have 400+ systems in banks where banking regulations REQUIRE it as part of the banking regulation to prevent money laundering

Also well as use cases in Nuclear Reactors, Military Vehicles, Aircraft, City and State government departments of various types and kinds, including jails .... etc etc etc

And this edge cases are all using linux and need kernel level loging? How did they work before kernel introduced ePBF? I bet Nuclear Reactor folks take stock kernel and use ePBF off the shelf.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #11 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Quote
Kernel shouldn't have implemented this in the first place.

I am trying not to be rude here but to me this means you just do not understand the basics.

Same. I am being extra nice but to me all your controversial claims look like you heard all the words and use them at random. I'll wait for other people to chime in if I am misunderstanding something.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #12 –
Quote from: dpx – on
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on


When I have 400+ systems in banks where banking regulations REQUIRE it as part of the banking regulation to prevent money laundering

Also well as use cases in Nuclear Reactors, Military Vehicles, Aircraft, City and State government departments of various types and kinds, including jails .... etc etc etc

And this edge cases are all using linux and need kernel level loging? How did they work before kernel introduced ePBF? I bet Nuclear Reactor folks take stock kernel and use ePBF off the shelf.


And they contribute back to the kernel code.  Especially the banks.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #13 –
Quote from: dpx – on
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on


I am trying not to be rude here but to me this means you just do not understand the basics.

Same. I am being extra nice but to me all your controversial claims look like you heard all the words and use them at random. I'll wait for other people to chime in if I am misunderstanding something.


You edited what I wrote.  Thank You for correcting it.

Re: Systemd...exactly what some of us where afraid of

Reply #14 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Quote from: dpx – on


Same. I am being extra nice but to me all your controversial claims look like you heard all the words and use them at random. I'll wait for other people to chime in if I am misunderstanding something.


You edited what I wrote.  Thank You for correcting it.

I didn't edit anything, which is easy enough to check. Are you mentally Ok and/or on medications?