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Topic: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd (Read 3728 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #1 –
Wow. Looking at the stuff he's written under "So what should distros without systemd do?", he could've just spelled it out: you'll need your own fork.

Non-systemd distros will need "implementations" and "bridges" and what not. So we'd have to implement systemd "features" to keep away from systemd? I'd rather keep away from Gnome from now on!

But isn't it nice that he's "helping out" with a temporary alternate code path? Why is the whole section even there? Feels like he's mocking non-systemd users.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #3 –
Nothing new under the sun, Red Hat has been trying to EEE Linux for a long time so please allow me to politely extend an unconcerned  middle finger. As for the "So what should distros without systemd do?" rhetorical question, the answer is proverbially obvious: "we don't offer Gnome - we won't offer Gnome, duh".

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #4 –
Quote from: replabrobin – on
see also https://www.osnews.com/story/142551/gnome-adds-dependencies-on-systemd-lots-of-work-to-do-for-systemd-less-environments/

Extra points to "Thom Holwerda" for being really spiteful (or happy?) about this change?!
Quote
With these changes, GNOME further solidifies itself as a Linux desktop only – and lest anyone forget, that’s entirely within their right to do. Systemd haters can jump up and down all they want, but in the end, they have no right to demand that GNOME developers spend precious time and resources testing GNOME on and developing it for platforms that they themselves do not use. They’re clearly targeting the trifecta of Linux, system, and Wayland, and that’s their choice to make, not anyone else’s.

Gnome pushed itself to irrelevance years ago, so I can't imagine many people "jumping up and down"...

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #5 –
I'd be upset if Gnome was any good.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #6 –
Related https://news.itsfoss.com/fedora-43-wayland-only/

With kind of weird decision making https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3408?ref=news.itsfoss.com

The change proposal was pitched by Neal Gompa of the FESCo, who mentioned that:
Quote
Fedora Workstation has a long history of developing and promoting the Wayland experience for GNOME, and it has been the primary experience for all users (including those with NVIDIA cards) since Fedora Linux 36.

This continuation of the work in Fedora Linux 41 to drop the X11 session from the media reaffirms our commitment to the Wayland GNOME experience in furtherance of the goal to provide the highest quality GNOME experience through Fedora Workstation.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #7 –
Can't say I'm surprised. Honestly the only thing that's now lacking is if they switch GTK and gnome to rust and we'll come full circle.

We already have a few checklists done:

Trying to enforce gnome's standards on everyone or make it difficult to work with them ✓
Infect soystemd with anywhere and everywhere even if it's not even remotely relevant ✓
Shutting down potential competition such as Xorg (or rather XLibre now) ✓

Canonical is in on it too.
Replacing time-tested coreutils with bleeding edge software (not even version 1.0 but 0.1.0) uutils. ✓
Snaps ✓

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #9 –
It's kind of unfortunate because upstream GNOME has accepted plenty of my elogind/systemd-optional patches before. I think gnome-session's planned changes are the one thing that might affect us. We may or may not have to drop GDM. Depends on how it shakes out.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #10 –
Quote from: nous – on
Nothing new under the sun, Red Hat has been trying to EEE Linux for a long time so please allow me to politely extend an unconcerned  middle finger. As for the "So what should distros without systemd do?" rhetorical question, the answer is proverbially obvious: "we don't offer Gnome - we won't offer Gnome, duh".




window maker is looking like a smarter and smarter choice with each passing year

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #11 –
Quote from: dpx – on

Fedora Workstation has a long history of developing and promoting the Wayland experience


What the fuck is that.... does the damn mouse work?  Cut and Paste?  Keyboard?

We have been using the "Wayland Experience" since xerox Park...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY

I am sick of the marketing crap being poured onto the Linux ecosystem to justify the unexceptionable.


Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #12 –
It's funny how it all accelerates, ain't it? It's like we all were right from the start, but remember we're delusional ones...

Quote from: lotuskip – on
Wow. Looking at the stuff he's written under "So what should distros without systemd do?", he could've just spelled it out: you'll need your own fork.

Non-systemd distros will need "implementations" and "bridges" and what not. So we'd have to implement systemd "features" to keep away from systemd? I'd rather keep away from Gnome from now on!

But isn't it nice that he's "helping out" with a temporary alternate code path? Why is the whole section even there? Feels like he's mocking non-systemd users.

But you know, this is exactly how things are right now. If you’re running OpenRC (which gentoo is basically abandoning, especially with how google has taken over some of the top roles) you’re still using several forked systemd components like eudev, elogind, etmpfiles, esysusers, etc. What we really need as a community is an easier, more automated way to replace those. I’d assume that’s already in the works, because, as stated above, they clearly don’t like our choice.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #13 –
Given that newer versions of GTK are worse in many ways than older ones, it may make sense to port Xfce (or Mate) to QT, or fork an earlier version of GTK.

My most recent irritation is preview images not resizing when the modal dialogs are resized. IIRC the recommended fix is to search for the file in your file manager since you have the name of the file right there in the file open dialog. Literally a step back to the 1990s or maybe earlier.

I remember experiencing similar annoyances in the past 13 years, but I can't recall what they were.

Re: GNOME to Increase Dependence on systemd

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Demiplane Dreamer – on
Given that newer versions of GTK are worse in many ways than older ones, it may make sense to port Xfce (or Mate) to QT, or fork an earlier version of GTK.

I'd rather have a GTK3 fork that'd inject itself and behave like normal GTK, but with stabilised API and without being ever updated to whatever the fuck GNOMIES what it to be...