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Topic: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix? (Read 5343 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #15 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
[...]
NO YOU CAN NOT.  That is misinformation and you are wrong.  You can't even do that with the AUR.
Just calm your tits, would you? You are obviously wrong and here's a thread with CachyOS repos tutorial by Hitman https://forum.artixlinux.org/index.php/topic,5188.msg33115.html (which is just as Arch-based as Parabola and uses the same systemd as you are screaming about) where you can easily install their optimised kernel, this is absolutely the same usecase as the one jackie's doing here. It's of course unsupported by Artix devs and powerusers do it on their own, but you spewing this nonsense is just beyond unnecessary. He of course can do it and it works, because that is the nature of Linux, which is fucking freedom of choice, it's just the same as installing idk Liquorix kernel with it's own repos by Damentz's script provided on his website, not that this is something unexperienced people should do. You should take some time off the forum, because you're being just way too toxic.

Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #16 –
Quote
systemd plays an important role in the GNU/Linux system as it is today; are we obligated to call it GNU/systemd/Linux? (#systemd)

    systemd is a fairly important component, but not as important as the kernel (Linux), nor as important as the basis of the system as a whole (GNU). However, if you want to emphasize the presence of systemd by calling the system “GNU/systemd/Linux,” there is nothing wrong with doing so.

Yeah Stallman has been wrong before and he is still capable of being wrong.  SystemD eats up more and more of the systems admin and kernel space activities.  If anything, it is a systemD OS and the kernel you can probably change.

Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #17 –
Quote from: jackie777 – on
Is there anybody use libre kernel in artix linux because im using linux-libre-rt-lts its mantain by Free Software Foundation Latin America, The reason why i like libre kernel because its 100% free software theres no  binary blobs no drm and its not mantain by Linus Torvalds or if you want to Escape from linux foundation use libre kernel.

I respect the fully free approach but I personally don't find it viable; you need the right hardware, which is usually dated laptops, and unless you're doing very specific academic or professional work, you will most likely need to run proprietary programs anyways.
So while I think it would be fun to set up a laptop to be fully libre (including boot) and try to do as much as you can on it, I don't think it fits the needs of 99%+ of users. And there's also the question of performance for resource intensive tasks, which tends to be lower on fully free systems.

To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security, and I find mainline linux safe enough.

Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #18 –
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mod edit, i have hidden this post under a spoiler.

Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #19 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
It shows you have a serious problem with women, at least in this instance.

You should really calm your tits mate. If you are taking some medication for all the ignorant rage you are spreading all over the forum, then dosage may be wrong. If not you should go have that checked.

Re: is there anybody use libre kernel in artix

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Dastard – on
To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security(...)
Yeah, this is the ideological nuisance about GNU related projects, although technically right they operate on zero trust, and while this helped personal computing a lot e.g. with their licenses (don't get me wrong if it weren't for them we'd probably have much worse problems with pc's) it leaves a bit of a vacuum, i wouldn't say moral cause maybe they only have the best intentions and they are aware that GNU licensed software can be subversive too, but it certainly needs someone to really make things right, not corporate sellout, neither cultish BS.

linux-libre doesn't boot with a closed sourse driver present and it's a shame they don't have a workaround cause i would use some deblobbed drivers right now... i know i can build my own but it would be too mentally draining (and by coincidence this is what the establishment does to good people nowadays, telling "look,you can/are allowed,go do it" even though it's actually very hard, so you see it can go both ways - and i'm not naming any names here)

systemd is probably not 100% the most subversive GPL licensed software ever made cause like e.g. chromium it grew from the "hands" of too many "people", yes it still needs to be replaced with a competent solution like a s6/dinit hybrid, but i wouldn't be as extreme as to not touch a repository with it.
You need moderation or you end up a cult.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #21 –
Please make it stop.

A suggestion was made that if you want this libre kernel you can add the parabola repo at the bottom of pacman.conf.
That's the pertinent point "add this to pacman.conf down bottom".
So no "replacing the core Artix repos with the broken Parabola ones".

It just lets you install the libre kernel if you want it. No core packages will be replaced as the higher repos take precedence.

There's then a suggestion
Quote
and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.

Now maybe the latter should come with some sort of health warning but realistically any one who tries is going to know any breakage is on them.

@mrbrklyn You seem to specialise lately in either telling people not to derail threads, when often they've barely gone off-piste, or derailing them yourself because someone has the audacity to disagree with you.

This libre kernel is clearly not going to work to some degree on devices which need firmware. So it not working on -- insert random laptop here -- is not a surprise.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #22 –
Isn't every computer running smaller computer that we can't access, running minix? Maybe those laptops endorsed by FSF don't have it but as I recall they are motherboard thing and not easy to get rid of. So technically it is extremely hard to have completely clean setup.

I find binary blobs, especially those that only get uploaded to printer or scanner, far less dangerous than nvidia blob or anything that executes on main processor.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #23 –
Probably that's why blob policies in e.g. gnuboot libreboot are like they are, because ideally they would want there to be no blobs at the low cpu/chipset level, but since that is not possible (newest x86 pc's supporting this are from 8 years ago and requiring a hack called deguard) they instead want to block all the other higher level blobs for accessories instead to prove a point, but the newest pc's purely doing that are from 15+ years ago, this is the case with gnuboot.

There is more to the story such as if cpu microcode updates can contain spyware or if even accessories can spy e.g. keylog on you (and e.g. that's why you would want to block all blobs) but why have zero trust?

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #24 –
"Hitman" "dpx" "gripped" "shoun2137" "dastard" to these people thank you for helping me from the toxic, and mrbrklyn i hope you doing well in life and wish you happiness so im going close this topic

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Hitman – on
Quote from: Dastard – on
To paraphrase many FSF fans, all it takes is one line of code to make your entire system compromised, and FSF operates on that philosophy, but I think there's no such thing as absolute security(...)
Yeah, this is the ideological nuisance about GNU related projects, although technically right they operate on zero trust, and while this helped personal computing a lot e.g. with their licenses (don't get me wrong if it weren't for them we'd probably have much worse problems with pc's) it leaves a bit of a vacuum, i wouldn't say moral cause maybe they only have the best intentions and they are aware that GNU licensed software can be subversive too, but it certainly needs someone to really make things right, not corporate sellout, neither cultish BS.



No that has not been the problem with the Stallman view of software in society.  The major problem has been, and even Richard acknowledges this, that the net some of all threats to political freedom with software do not just surround copyright and proprietary licenses or the   intellectual property law that supports them.  It should be well obvious at this point that the FSF position is just not true.  For him, as an advanced hacker living in a secure economic environment, that has been his major sword to fall on.  But for society as a whole, threats are more nuanced,  multi-pointed, and equally threatening, with or without a GNU wrapper for software licensing. This was largely recongkninzed by the FSF and many points covered in the GPL3.  Unfortunately threats come from everywhere and include android, hardware complexity, software usage designed to exploit vulnerabilities both human and digital with or without Free Software licneses, more threats than can be named here.  Free Software addresses just ***one*** of these threats, abate a very important one.   It is this single mindedness and rigorous inflexibility that makes it cult like and undermines its moral position, not just a lack of trust.  Many systems we depend on lack trust.

If adherence to the creed requires one to abandon software that works on a large number of systems, and confines it to technocrats who have advanced hacking skills and criminals who work outside the law, then it is very limited to being useful to the broader population.  This has always been lost by people who are core FSF supporters, including Richard.

As for the suggested pacman.conf edits:
Regardless, wherever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf  on the top or the bottom, when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public,  core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.  If you are a hacker and willing to live with that risk, more power to you.  Go for it.  It will not be problem free and it addresses only a subset of the total ecosystem... and it will become a hybid system and dependent on  parabola in total to run.

No system or distro can be maintained with this kind of open ended hacking of its core.

There might be other possible solutions, you can pick your poison.  One can take on the task and  bring into artix a libre version of the kernel.  That would address the kernel problem but not the rest of the ecosystem which has FSF compliance issues.  There are distros that have a Free Software version along with a non-free software optional version.  It is very hard to maintain even with a staff of coders and admins.

One thing I am certain of though.  If you take 1000 random users with random hardware and restrict yourself to Parabola or one of the several versions of Free OSes (almost all of which are systemd driven) you will end up with a boatload of unhappy end users with systems that are fundamentally broken for day to day usage... and THAT should had been the "health warning" and it needs to be upfront.

Artix largely works... which is quite an amazing feat for its development people.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #26 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Regardless, where ever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf , when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public,  core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
I'm going to try the shouty thing:
NO , NO ,NO. WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT ?
(That was fun but is there any way to make it flash?)

This is about people doing it for themselves. Power users / hackers / tinkerer's. What have the unsuspecting public got to do with it ?
You've back tracked a bit as apparently people are allowed to play around with custom kernels and foreign repos now where earlier you were saying this shouldn't be done at all.

I'm writing this from a very hybrid system. I call it 'Strapon' because I have a puerile sense of humour.
And if it breaks I wouldn't expect any support from anyone.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Regardless, wherever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf  on the top or the bottom, when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public,  core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.

Case in point, you just have no idea how pacman works, then use grandiose words to mask ignorance. In non-imaginary world you can add repo at the bottom, install only kernel of your choice, and it won't affect rest of the system. Also has nothing to do with systemd since kernel is init agnostic. Certainly doesn't require, nor anybody requested, that arch devs maintain this in any way.

Pray tell, if I enable repo like this and install specific kernel trough it, on my own computer, who is "unsuspecting public"?

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: gripped – on

It just lets you install the libre kernel if you want it. No core packages will be replaced as the higher repos take precedence.

There's then a suggestion
Quote
and also install your-freedom package from libre repo to remove all non-free package thats how i make my artix linux free libre distros 100% free software.

Now maybe the latter should come with some sort of health warning but realistically any one who tries is going to know any breakage is on them.

Yeah - I just did that although it should had been included by the poster.  It is stretch at best to call the Kernel and non-core package.

Quote from: gripped – on

This libre kernel is clearly not going to work to some degree on devices which need firmware. So it not working on -- insert random laptop here -- is not a surprise.

Yup.  Bet on it.

Re: Is there anybody using libre kernel in artix?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: gripped – on
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Regardless, where ever one enters a foreign repository in pacman.conf , when you remove, without warning on an unsuspecting public,  core Artix packages then the system is compromised and becomes at best a hybrid system.
I'm going to try the shouty thing:
NO , NO ,NO. WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT ?
(That was fun but is there any way to make it flash?)

This is about people doing it for themselves. Power users / hackers / tinkerer's. What have the unsuspecting public got to do with it ?
You've back tracked a bit as apparently people are allowed to play around with custom kernels and foreign repos now where earlier you were saying this shouldn't be done at all.

I'm writing this from a very hybrid system. I call it 'Strapon' because I have a puerile sense of humour.
And if it breaks I wouldn't expect the any support from anyone.

Which is a healthy attitude if you are going to do that.... although I would hope that someone would be willing to collaborate with you.  Don't just don't expect it from the core distro.  They already ***support*** a systemd free system and xlibre on top of that.  You keep posting a ***responsible*** suggestion and comparing that to someone who without warning suggests to hack the pacman.conf file to include an external repo which artix has no control over without any warning that doing so severely alters the fundamental way the system will operate.

This is not just an issue of language either.  This is about crossing the line from responsible evangelism of ones position, to irresponsible evangelism.

Years ago, I had this friend, Jay Schulzberger, who decided to install Debian on the computer that  ran to bar's audiovisual system.  Jay could never understand why NYLUG was then barred from the establishment.   Jays explanation for this was the bar's computer was fundamentally broken and it should have one easy button that restored it to its original state (since the computer was accessible to the public).