Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

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Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #15 – 23 October 2021, 17:38:32

Quote from: limotux – on 23 October 2021, 15:46:57

OOOPS! I never thought of this. But does this mean that using AUR command line is OK?

When the belief ends and no knowledge is available, one often sits in front of a black screen.
In German, this means: learning through pain.

There is no AUR command line, because Aur is not a repository but only a folder with cooking recipes.
If you want to learn more:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_User_Repository

MfG

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #16 – 23 October 2021, 17:41:35

I like Artix and i started my Arch journey with Artix. To be honest i used pamac almost from beginning but after seeing that i cant install pamac on my new system i thought there is a problem with mirrorlist or repo, at least that announcement made it clear for me thanks. I knew pamac could have issues and i think avoiding pamac makes sense to me if it has security problems and system stability issues. But in open-source freedom mind, i believe there also should be alternatives for choices (GUI CLI dilemma). By the way i am using yay right now and it works okay i cant complain. Can our community make a suggestion about AUR helpers(easy and minimal) ? that can be useful for non-expert users like me.

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #17 – 23 October 2021, 17:57:04

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AUR_helpers

Quote

Warning: AUR helpers are not supported by Arch Linux. You should become familiar with the manual build process in order to be prepared to troubleshoot problems.

They are also not supported by Artix. In addition to Arch, Artix doesn't use systemd, so that is an additional reason not to support AUR and AUR helpers.

Manual build process

Again, everyone is free to install whatever he wants, but without official support.

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #18 – 23 October 2021, 18:16:47

Quote from: strajder – on 23 October 2021, 17:57:04

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AUR_helpersThey are also not supported by Artix. In addition to Arch, Artix doesn't use systemd, so that is an additional reason not to support AUR and AUR helpers.

Manual build process

Again, everyone is free to install whatever he wants, but without official support.

To summarize it, AUR should be excluded from repos?
What about google chrome and others? How can Artix/Arch user get them?
Would it be possible somehow to put such apps in the main repositories by Artix developers (recompiled from .deb?)
I believe I read something about possibility to recompile/install from .deb.
Would that be OK? What about using debtap https://github.com/helixarch/debtap ?

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #19 – 23 October 2021, 18:37:51

Quote from: limotux – on 23 October 2021, 18:16:47

To summarize it, AUR should be excluded from repos?

AUR was never a part of Arch official repositories, nor Artix repositories.

Quote from: limotux – on 23 October 2021, 18:16:47

What about google chrome and others? How can Artix/Arch user get them?

Google Chrome is only available from AUR. Artix has Ungoogled Chromium in the universe repository, which is a version of Google Chrome without Google's privacy invading "features".

Quote from: limotux – on 23 October 2021, 18:16:47

What about using debtap https://github.com/helixarch/debtap ?

See my previous message.

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #20 – 23 October 2021, 19:19:46

Quote from: strajder – on 23 October 2021, 18:37:51

AUR was never a part of Arch official repositories, nor Artix repositories.Google Chrome is only available from AUR. Artix has Ungoogled Chromium in the universe repository, which is a version of Google Chrome without Google's privacy invading "features".See my previous message.

Sure. Much clearer now for me.
thank you.

Re: Octopi and Pamac removed from repositories

Reply #21 – 25 October 2021, 11:33:57

Both pamac and octopi will be available from [universe], which is maintained by Artix devs but not official: "not official" means unsupported, in case this isn't clear.

Thank (or blame) @Artist.

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #22 – 25 October 2021, 15:05:52

Quote from: nous – on 25 October 2021, 11:33:57

Both pamac and octopi will be available from [universe], which is maintained by Artix devs but not official: "not official" means unsupported, in case this isn't clear.

Thank (or blame) @Artist.

I'd like to remove them completely from all Artix repos. They're in AUR anyway. If someone can not live w/o them, they have to learn how to use AUR.

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #23 – 25 October 2021, 16:05:20

Quote from: calvinh – on 25 October 2021, 15:05:52

I'd like to remove them completely from all Artix repos. They're in AUR anyway. If someone can not live w/o them, they have to learn how to use AUR.

Agree at 100 %!
AUR is not so big problem!
And all of this is a good signal to coders to make alternate GUI/frontend for pacman.

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #24 – 25 October 2021, 18:40:36

Update 25-Oct-2021 18:40 (CET) :
To accommodate for the wishes of the users who expressed their preference to have paman and octopi provided by Artix, these have now been added to the - not officially supported - universe repository. A clear warning and disclaimer are displayed when installing or upgrading these packages:

Code: [Select]

>>> THIS TOOL IS NOT SUPPORTED BY ARTIX (NOR BY ARCH)
    THE USE OF AUR HELPERS CAN RESULT IN A BROKEN SYSTEM
    MAKE SURE TO HAVE A VALID BACKUP FIRST AND USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

artist

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #25 – 28 October 2021, 20:41:23

since i am new here, i want to say i do like your decision and follow the true UNIX philosophy, not linux adopted one made years during systemd mess then wayland came along made it worst for linux...i really do finally appreciated someone have same idea as mine that we share common interest..start making linux from scratch by removing systemd and used S6-init base, soon i am really looking forward in your project quest to make the best OS...not just ordinary distro like rest same community...NO, THE BEST LINUX OS ENTIRELY JUST LIKE FREEBSD DID ..by forking entire linux community and start from there ...just the way GNU starting making their owned kernel ...so why not we can make next gen project on experimenting on linus source code of his kernel and forked it to make our owned kernel with our tools in that way..since your team got rid the bloat of sysd...now i have confident we can do it with entire linux kernel bloat it has become now..it be separated project for spare time while this team continue improving this linux distro of becoming one day becoming complete os and different than entire distros apart ...that be more fun now, and i don't give a what linux creator says now..he too busy giving lectures about his success when your starting your owned now with new path

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #26 – 28 October 2021, 20:59:59

Quote from: ivan_XI – on 28 October 2021, 20:41:23

since i am new here, i want to say i do like your decision and follow the true UNIX philosophy, not linux adopted one made years during systemd mess then wayland came along made it worst for linux...i really do finally appreciated someone have same idea as mine that we share common interest..start making linux from scratch by removing systemd and used S6-init base, soon i am really looking forward in your project quest to make the best OS...not just ordinary distro like rest same community...NO, THE BEST LINUX OS ENTIRELY JUST LIKE FREEBSD DID ..by forking entire linux community and start from there ...just the way GNU starting making their owned kernel ...so why not we can make next gen project on experimenting on linus source code of his kernel and forked it to make our owned kernel with our tools in that way..since your team got rid the bloat of sysd...now i have confident we can do it with entire linux kernel bloat it has become now..it be separated project for spare time while this team continue improving this linux distro of becoming one day becoming complete os and different than entire distros apart ...that be more fun now, and i don't give a what linux creator says now..he too busy giving lectures about his success when your starting your owned now with new path

It'd be very difficult to completely replace the Linux kernel, or even clean it up. However, I would love to see Artix to replace the bloated glibc with musl libc next.

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #27 – 28 October 2021, 21:21:10

what ever it takes since we have entire arch repository in our disposal by converting each one into musl...it may takes days or months, i am looking forward with this discussions with developers here every step they take to steer the ship on right course..my example i even make my new desktop look on my artix s6 version and working fantastic now, my printer works and my cam works too...even steam even lutrix working well ..

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #28 – 29 October 2021, 09:36:34

Actually it's AUR that makes Arch great – AUR is one of the main reasons why I am using Artix. It offers me virtually all Linux software that is available, even closed source with problematic licences.

Re: Octopi and Pamac moved to [universe]

Reply #29 – 30 October 2021, 16:48:23

this is a very interesting discussion and in weighing both sides, i'm not convinced that dissuading users from using the AUR and not providing a graphical package manager is the way to go

regarding a graphical package manager, all of the graphical and community ISOs provide a preconfigured DE which, to me, implies that a large portion of that audience is newblets (like myself) and not having a proper, stable pointy-clicky package manager is an immediate turn-off for several reasons

i depend on a graphical package manager to ...

* ease installs
* quickly find the web address of the repo
* get a description of the software
* compare a package to other packages
* check the build date
* list dependencies
* list included files
* ability to query multiple repos

...all in a unified interface

nous made the statement "...imagine the negative reviews: "It's 2021 and Artix doesn't provide a GUI package manager... die die die!""

yes, it is 2021, and in my opinion users, especially those new to a Linux OS, should not have to resort to a terminal to browse, compare, get descriptions about and install software

pamac is junk, agreed, but something is needed imo

regarding the AUR, sure there's malware that creeps in once in a while (kind of like the kernel (DRM) and systemd, eh?), but does that happen often enough to discourage its use entirely and, in the process, cut newbies off from a plethora of useful software? of course if the same/similar package is available in the official repo, the user should always be prompted (thinking here of Google's Chrome malware)

a suggestion was made about scanning the build files with a virus scanner and while i don't think that's a bad idea, i wonder if it could be made even simpler ...

i would guess that virtually no one actually audits the code before installing something from the AUR, especially those, like myself, who a) have better things to do and b) don't know the language(s) it's written in

i don't know how malware in the AUR commonly manifests, but if for example it manifests in build scripts which then download crap from a 3rd party, then the user could be presented with a dialog along the lines of "x package wants to communicate with http:///whatever.com during the installation - do you want to allow this?" - kind of like the permissions system that Mozilla implemented for Firefox add-ons