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Topic: Artix without compulsory elogind (Read 2837 times) previous topic - next topic
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Artix without compulsory elogind

Personally, I find that I don't need elogind. Xorg can be started rootless without it by manually changing permissions and acpid can handle power and sleep events just fine.
If I could remove it, that would be just one less moving part.
Also, Artix is all about user freedom so I think the user should have the freedom to go without elogind.
Is there a future in which elogind is an optional service instead of compulsory?

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Nostos – on

Is there a future in which elogind is an optional service instead of compulsory?


No, technically not viable.
If you want to have such customization, gentoo would be recommended.

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Nostos – on
If I could remove it, that would be just one less moving part.
Also, Artix is all about user freedom so I think the user should have the freedom to go without elogind.
You have such freedom.

PKGBUILD
Code: [Select]
pkgname='elogind-dummy'
pkgver=0.1
pkgrel=1
arch=(any)
provides=(libelogind.so=0-64 libelogind liblogind elogind logind)
Build and install that and you can remove elogind & libelogind. (or add a replaces= line and have them removed automatically)
Expect things to break though. I used to to roll like that at one point when I was first using Artix.
The dealbreaker for me is saving text files with elevated privileges in KDE does not work without some form of logind. Or at least I can't get it to work.  I like that functionality.


Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #3 –
You can also opt to use seatd as a replacement. It doesn't do everything but it's close.

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #5 –
Quote from: calvinh – on
consolekit2 is another option.


Good luck recompiling a bunch of desktop packages, adding patches eventually.
If you want a logind free system, better use gentoo, it is much more easy with a source distro than binary distro such as artix.

But sure, feel free to use ck2 and go through some pain.  :P

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #6 –
Quote from: artoo – on

Good luck recompiling a bunch of desktop packages, adding patches eventually.
If you want a logind free system, better use gentoo, it is much more easy with a source distro than binary distro such as artix.

But sure, feel free to use ck2 and go through some pain.  :P

I use obarun. Don't have the patience/time to compile everything from source now. :)

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Nostos – on
Why is that? I can use Void without elogind just fine. It's run by runit as an optional daemon.

Most packages in Artix have compiled-in elogind support (often meaning they subtly break when elogind is not available, see the KDE user who posted on this topic). And even those that don't depend on elogind itself running might depend on elogind's library (including those who are only after systemd's admittedly useful D-Bus helper functions).

Unlike Void, Artix is not willing to compile packages twice (like they do with dbus and dbus-elogind) or with missing features to remove the the elogind dependency.

Dudemanguy has been packaging seatd + libelogind for a while now as a possible replacement for people who consider elogind "too bloated", but as artoo noticed, functionality might be missing (especially if you use a "normal" DE instead of a more minimal WM), and excising libelogind as well is only really possible by using a source based distro.

My Gentoo machine, for instance, is elogind-free, and the few programs that require libsystemd are working quite well with libbasu (a drop-in replacement for systemd's D-Bus helper functions - like libelogind, but much better scoped).

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Nostos – on
Why is that? I can use Void without elogind just fine. It's run by runit as an optional daemon.

because like it or not, most of desktop stuff is nowadays only fully functional with logind.
 

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #10 –
Quote from: artoo – on
because like it or not, most of desktop stuff is nowadays only fully functional with logind.

Then make it optional. I'm using BSPWM. Why should I have to use something that I have no use for just because the next guy *might* want to use KDE?

capezotte's response is much clearer:

Quote from: capezotte – on
Most packages in Artix have compiled-in elogind support (often meaning they subtly break when elogind is not available, see the KDE user who posted on this topic). And even those that don't depend on elogind itself running might depend on elogind's library (including those who are only after systemd's admittedly useful D-Bus helper functions).

Unlike Void, Artix is not willing to compile packages twice (like they do with dbus and dbus-elogind) or with missing features to remove the the elogind dependency.

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Nostos – on
Why should I have to use something that I have no use for just because the next guy *might* want to use KDE?


Correct. Or any other DE.
You are free to not use artix.

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #12 –
It's not just KDE. From memory at least CUPS now needs a logind to work out of the box. It's not that long ago that wasn't the case.
The more systemd has enveloped the Linux ecosystem the more these hard dependancies have arisen.
As already explained it's optional, You can do you with a little knowledge of the Arch packaging system.
But Artix needs to just work for the majority of the people who may want to use it so there's a logind as a dependency

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #13 –
Quote from: gripped – on
It's not just KDE.



Situation is far worse than many users grasp, and there is no viable alternative as it stands.

You can do away with it on artix, but it will not be the case out of box, even seatd has libelogind depend.

And before I'd go through this, I chose gentoo which allows this more easily, at cost of compile time.

Re: Artix without compulsory elogind

Reply #14 –
I just want to be clear I was replying to Nostos. As I'm not sure I was?
Your approach Artoo is the correct one.
Thanks for Artix :)