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Topic: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing... (Read 14627 times) previous topic - next topic
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X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Source are from "Tech Voldemort":
https://xcancel.com/LundukeJournal/status/1930727192964514137 (archive: https://archive.is/Jvhit)

Which spiralled into Enrico getting banned and nuked from freedesktop:
https://xcancel.com/LundukeJournal/status/1930772101985935578 (archive: https://archive.is/gCjQe)

freedesktop being a villain of the story:
https://xcancel.com/LundukeJournal/status/1930811054520443215 (archive: https://archive.is/1Gy84)
https://xcancel.com/LundukeJournal/status/1930797938705568127 (archive: https://archive.is/4nlja)
https://xcancel.com/LundukeJournal/status/1930806994601918957 (archive: https://archive.is/kLcpU)

Reaction of Hyprland developer, Vaxry:
https://xcancel.com/vaxryy/status/1930878734166270304 (archive: https://archive.is/e7KRQ)
https://xcancel.com/vaxryy/status/1930888924110475461 (archive: https://archive.is/VPln5)


The repo to the new "XLibre" fork is here:
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/prepare

freedesktop (at the very least GNOME, Redhat, canonical and microsoft part of it) has certain corporate bias and agenda.
I always felt the "push" for Wayland was never as organic as it seems and stuff like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This absolutely does not paint Freedesktop and Red Hat in a positive light.
Story is still developing, but I'm curious of the outcome so that's why I posted it here.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #1 –
I do hope we can stop the 'enshittification' of linux; Cory Doctorow explains a lot in this pycon talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydVmzg_SJLw.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #2 –
Move fast and break things.

Thank you for this post! Esp. appreciate the archive links, since X is so unusable ;)

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #3 –
Quote from: lotuskip – on
Move fast and break things.

Thank you for this post! Esp. appreciate the archive links, since X is so unusable ;)
Ah, Sorry. Just changed the urls from x.com to xcancel.com

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #4 –
Is there a Tl;DR for those w/o access to these links?
AFAIK there is a long-living fork of X by OpenBSD (if i'm not mistaken) called Xenocara. It is even packaged for Hyperbola or Parabola (don't remember which one exactly, maube even both)
ARMtix
If you need to contact me, use email

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #5 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
Is there a Tl;DR for those w/o access to these links?
AFAIK there is a long-living fork of X by OpenBSD (if i'm not mistaken) called Xenocara. It is even packaged for Hyperbola or Parabola (don't remember which one exactly, maube even both)
Per Enrico's words:
Quote from: metux_lts
#stolzmonat woke @redhat will nicht daß ich #Xorg weiter entwickle und alles auf @freedesktop gelöscht.
Release kommt trotzdem zur #Sommersonnenwende

#stolzmonat woke @redhat does not want me to develop #Xorg any further and deleted everything on @freedesktop.
Release will still be available #Sommersonnenwende
There are two possible timelines of how things played out:
- Enrico forked Xorg as XLibre and freedesktop nuked his pending merge request work, including his gitlab account.
- Freedesktop done this first and then Enrico forked XLibre
As I'm not sure what exactly is the true timeline, I'm providing both versions... But either way, it still is discrimination at this point, retaliating this way only makes freedesktop the villain in my eyes.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #6 –
This is huge. I was really hoping that somebody will fork and continue developing X since it is still much better than wayland. It was all too obvious that they want to kill it artificially since it won't go away organically. Whole freedesktop story that I was monitoring from time to time did look a lot like systemd needless push.

When it goes public I hope we will switch to XLibre on Artix?
 

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #7 –
Quote from: dpx – on
This is huge. I was really hoping that somebody will fork and continue developing X since it is still much better than wayland. It was all too obvious that they want to kill it artificially since it won't go away organically. Whole freedesktop story that I was monitoring from time to time did look a lot like systemd needless push.

When it goes public I hope we will switch to XLibre on Artix?
Unless this fork can use wayland-oriented video drivers from mesa, it'll be in trouble, unfortunately
ARMtix
If you need to contact me, use email

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #8 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
Unless this fork can use wayland-oriented video drivers from mesa, it'll be in trouble, unfortunately

Some nice folks can certainly fork mesa. Or XLibre filling in the blanks as you said.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: phoenix_king_rus – on
Unless this fork can use wayland-oriented video drivers from mesa, it'll be in trouble, unfortunately
This Herbst fellow seems to be a key mesa developer...

He is also a "Freedesktop Code of Conduct Enforcement Team member". Now, they'll have to explain this ban to the public. So they'll say Mr. Weigelt most condemnably broke the Code of Conduct [by trying to maintain functional software].

Of course the dust needs to settle here a bit, but I also already hope that Artix will switch over to XLibre regardless of what Arch chooses to do. And frankly I would find it strange if Arch fought this when they so readily adopted systemd.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Shoun2137 – on
There are two possible timelines of how things played out:
- Enrico forked Xorg as XLibre and freedesktop nuked his pending merge request work, including his gitlab account.
- Freedesktop done this first and then Enrico forked XLibre
It seems that this has been bubbling under the surface for a while and Xlibre had been a 'thing' for a while. But it was on freedesktop's gitlab so that went along with his account deletion I guess ? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/metux/xserver. Though of course he'll still have his copy to put somewhere else.

https://old.reddit.com/user/metux-its/
Skimming through that it seems Enrico has been not been shy calling out the issues he perceives with the direction, or lack of it, of the Xorg project and the 'moles' (as he calls them) from IBM undermining Xorg.

I guess things came to a head but as already stated; reacting by deleting his account, repo and mass closing all the merge requests doesn't have good optics.

It will be interesting to see what comes of it all.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #11 –

Quote from: lotuskip – on

This Herbst fellow seems to be a key mesa developer...

He is also a "Freedesktop Code of Conduct Enforcement Team member". Now, they'll have to explain this ban to the public. So they'll say Mr. Weigelt most condemnably broke the Code of Conduct [by trying to maintain functional software].

Of course the dust needs to settle here a bit, but I also already hope that Artix will switch over to XLibre regardless of what Arch chooses to do. And frankly I would find it strange if Arch fought this when they so readily adopted systemd.
You can see how they treated Vaxry. - He was removed and banned from freedesktop simply because his discord server did something they deemed "questionable and abhorrent". Do note that he himself was never directly involved in any of the drama, making this a case of the association fallacy, a clear case of guilt by association.

In my opinion, the only mistake he made was trying to resolve the situation amicably. With the kind of people he was dealing with, apologizing is never enough. They'll eat you whole. Stand your ground, my friends, always.
Quote from: gripped – on
https://old.reddit.com/user/metux-its/
Skimming through that it seems Enrico has been not been shy calling out the issues he perceives with the direction, or lack of it, of the Xorg project and the 'moles' (as he calls them) from IBM undermining Xorg.

EDIT1:
I've noticed something absolutely interesting - He's being suppressed on reddit. Look at this thread for example:
https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1l1zugv/revisiting_x11_vs_wayland_with_multiple_displays/
Every other message that he has is being "hidden" ie. you have to extend it to see it, but the sneaky thing is that in "most" webpage archiving services those messages will be automagically extended, so sometimes you'll see entirely different "content per se" - something that could potentially be influential or opinion-forming at large. And nope, the argument that it also applies to people being downvoted is absolutely out of the question, just look at the screenshot of how I see the website below, I don't use reddit so I don't have an account there.
https://archive.is/72Xty < Archive that has the things "extended"
Screenshot that is big just to prove my point:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT2:
The repo to the new "XLibre" fork is here:
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/prepare

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Shoun2137 – on
Every other message that he has is being "hidden" ie. you have to extend it to see it,
Yeah I noticed that and found it odd that it was happening to posts that had not been downvoted.
A bug or an agenda? The latter seems more likely on the strange site that is Reddit.

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #13 –
Well, we all know that reddit is a cesspool of echo-chambers and degeneracy (on both "sides", and even north or south of the "pole"), and Linux community is indeed absolutely polarised as well so... Personally, at this point I'm just really tired of shit like this... 

Re: X.Org is being forked, huge drama brewing...

Reply #14 –
I have an account on Reddit, although I haven't used it much. The site appears to look the same signed in or out as far as I have noticed, it's not like Meta or X, just a public forum board thing. It seems typically replies to posts are hidden and if they extend a long way you need to go to another page to view them, while independent posts on the main thread responding to the initial question or post  are shown.
Wayland support seems to be progressing in the Mate desktop:
https://wiki.mate-desktop.org/developers-corner/wayland-meson/
A lot of desktops are maintained and developed by freedesktop to some degree, so who will integrate this revised Xorg into those desktops?