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X11 as a political dispute

This blog seems to have opened a new political front in the X.org --> XLibre fork.

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Recently, a group of neofascist reactionaries announced a fork of the X.org server which, amongst other things, has introduced new security bugs into the X server they forked from X.org

I have to admit I haven't ever thought my preferences for one version or another of say an editor or other program could lead to my outing as a member of any political grouping.

Is this sort of language just part of a new generation's views ie are all old things/ideas just to be condemned outright?

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #1 –
20 yrs ago people had many discussions, often debates (both with at least some respect for each other) and sometimes a war. People have changed and the process was expedited by the internet. Where have the debates and discussions gone?

About Wayback, did not the sole dev throw the towel? https://ghostarchive.org/archive/jS1VO

An article about Xorg and Xlibre: https://felipec.wordpress.com/2025/07/08/xorg-neglect/

artist

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #2 –
Just google duckduckgo Ariadne Conill and everything will become clear.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #3 –
Quote from: replabrobin – on
This blog seems to have opened a new political front in the X.org --> XLibre fork.

Quote
Recently, a group of neofascist reactionaries announced a fork of the X.org server which, amongst other things, has introduced new security bugs into the X server they forked from X.org

I have to admit I haven't ever thought my preferences for one version or another of say an editor or other program could lead to my outing as a member of any political grouping.

Is this sort of language just part of a new generation's views ie are all old things/ideas just to be condemned outright?




Why are we dragging violent speech from another place here?  There is no reason.  The Artix devs have respectfully built an ecosystem for Linux with a minimum of useless name calling and hostility.  

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #4 –
Quote from: replabrobin – on
Is this sort of language just part of a new generation's views ie are all old things/ideas just to be condemned outright?




It is a kind of defamation and stigmatizing opposition for the last ~80 years, no different than calling "witch!" and pointing your finger at a random guy.
All done to avoid factual discussion.

"Neofascist" is kind of Soviet, EU and UN language. Tells more about the accuser than about the imaginary opponent.

I would ask users on the forum to please avoid opening a distro war can of worms. No one in the team is interested in that.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #7 –
Quote from: artoo – on
Quote from: replabrobin – on
Is this sort of language just part of a new generation's views ie are all old things/ideas just to be condemned outright?


I would ask users on the forum to please avoid opening a distro war can of worms. No one in the team is interested in that.

Totally agreed. In addition, no DE/WM war, no political arguments here.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #8 –
Quote from: calvinh – on

Totally agreed. In addition, no DE/WM war, no political arguments here.


One of the reasons these flamewars on politics inflame so quickly is because they require no real expertise to participate.  People, often previously unknown to us, just pop in and drop their mental illness in the thread with declarations of being knowing and experienced.  And that brings in more crazies.... some can even be decent coders because expertise on tech doesn't default to expertise on fascism or a lack of mental illness.

It is just best to not engage in this.  It serves no positive purpose.  In the end, individuals leanings will become self-evident anyway and who cares... nobody has ever, to my knowledge, died of execution because of support for emacs instead of vim, or which X server they run.

The reasons for the x.org fork is now well documented, and really, anyone with a long view of this knew it was coming and even hoped for it. 

To the degree that the wayland people resort to name calling etc, that is on them.  Building and using good software that protects essential digital freedoms, that is what artix does best.  The circus adds nothing to getting where we hope to be.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #9 –
I miss the good old days where only the product (Yes, product. Not code. Because this problem affects all other fields too.) matters. Where it didn't matter what or who you were.

These people are so privileged/sheltered/fortunate that they're so sensitive. Not able to grow thick skin.

These types are even more sensitive this classic compound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU46hQ_xO0k

What happens then, when a core irreplaceable and irremovable function of wayland code turns out it came from someone who has an even 1% difference of views? Do they move/make a new display stack again?

Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Quote from: calvinh – on

Totally agreed. In addition, no DE/WM war, no political arguments here.


One of the reasons these flamewars on politics inflame so quickly is because they require no real expertise to participate.  People, often previously unknown to us, just pop in and drop their mental illness in the thread with declarations of being knowing and experienced.  And that brings in more crazies.... some can even be decent coders because expertise on tech doesn't default to expertise on fascism.

It is just best to not engage in this.  It serves no positive purpose.  In the end, individuals leanings will become self-evident anyway and who cares... nobody has ever, to my knowledge, died of execution because of support for emacs instead of vim, or which X server they run.

The reasons for the x.org fork is now well documented, and really, anyone with a long view of this knew it was coming and even hoped for it. 

To the degree that the wayland people resort to name calling etc, that is on them.  Building and using good software that protects essential digital freedoms, that is what artix does best.  The circus adds nothing to getting where we hope to be.

The way I see it is that the debate/argument isn't the problem in of itself. It's when children posing as adults barge in but cannot handle it.

Edit: It's like giving a child a nuclear missile.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #10 –
Quote from: nous – on
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a group of neofascist reactionaries
Opinion discarded.
<pic>
Mane, I was eating lunch and now I feel like I'm gon throw up.

As a concept Wayback is just laughable. This thing won't run a proper full DE without being seriously gimped in functionality and running a simple WM such as i3wm isn't a feat. Without having proper support for various stuff like logical "primary" monitor that those obtuse wayland morons are debating in their little protocol council this thing has 0 chance of being usable. These people are veto'ing protocols that are useful and what normal casual users want. Just read this https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/179 it's like you're looking through the glass at an adult daycare for fake and gay retards ffs.

The primary endgoal of wayland is to divide and stall progress of non-corpo desktops. And it's absolutely working. Right now most of the "big and stable" DEs compositors are somewhat close when it comes to functionality, but in a future this will create a clusterfuck of incompatible software just because some of those DEs won't support a protocol/concept they deem "worthless". I'd argue that at that point there will be a fork of the core wayland, but closed source for use in "professional corpo suit" as it's MIT licensed. I bet RH/IBM are salivating at the thought of this.

But the worst thing is the political degeneracy that those ugly people bring. I don't even have to mention the recent GNOME/Canonical p3do/pr3d4tor scandal? Why are those people protected, while Enrico is suddenly a "nazi" and should be banned everywhere?

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #11 –
While apparently coming more from an extremist antifa school of thought in some regards, looking at some of Ariadne's other blog posts there is also a lot I think we could agree with too, promoting open source projects in general, so perhaps we can still hope this dear lady might look more favorably upon Xlibre in time as the project progresses and the benefits become clearer, if they do.
In one of her posts talking about social media she says this:
"The other key part of the formula: sow discord amongst the users. This can be done organically (by users) or algorithmically. People have an inherent desire to be right, and this keeps the engagement loop going as people fight over stupid things like whether Android or iPhones are better."
So she might also understand that we should be careful to avoid being set against each other for someone else's benefit.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #12 –
Quote from: clappingsnowdrop – on

The way I see it is that the debate/argument isn't the problem in of itself. It's when children posing as adults barge in but cannot handle it.

Edit: It's like giving a child a nuclear missile.


Arguing over political opinions can never resolve on internet forums and it is just not appropriate here.

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #13 –
Shock/horror: Something is off-topic in Off-Topic section? Maybe mods can additionally create Off-Off-Topic to move off-topic posts from Off-Topic section?

There is this guy on other forum who was self proclaimed hall monitor, always butting in to declare something off-topic or inappropriate. Coupled with his very low level of understanding, he was constantly interrupting conversations in a arrogant and self-righteous manner. In memory of thrilby (or something like that) I declare this topic of low interest to me but completely valid. Feel free to carry on with my official stamp of approval...

Re: X11 as a political dispute

Reply #14 –
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
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The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.
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Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.
So speaketh Eric