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Make Wayland Stay Gone

I don't use Wayland for anything, yet so many things have it as a hard dependency. I could force remove Wayland and it's other garbage, but they will just come back over time as things are updated. Does IgnorePkg in `/etc/pacman.conf` prevent dependencies from being installed or just updated?

Also, is it possible for the maintainers of Artix packages to change Wayland to an optional dependency by default? Perhaps that should be the standard. Especially in the case of Plasma.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #1 –
It would take lots of changes to change these dependencies. It won't hurt you though if your session uses X11.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Fox – on
Also, is it possible for the maintainers of Artix packages to change Wayland to an optional dependency by default? Perhaps that should be the standard. Especially in the case of Plasma.


Yes and no. It is possible but has no benefits.
Plasma pulls wayland, but we provide x11 session, so it is up to the user if x11/xlibre or wayland.

If you really want kind of minimalist system, try gentoo, a binary distro such as artix is not really fitting your bill if you want to avoid certain components. A binary distro requires compromises, a custom tailored system based on eg gentoo does not.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #3 –
Quote
but we provide x11 session,

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is an x11 session?

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #4 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
Quote
but we provide x11 session,

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is an x11 session?


If you pick x11 instead of wayland session, your box will auto-destruct.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #5 –

Can i remove wayland like pacman -Rdd wayland because im using only X11.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #6 –
When I look up X11 Sessions I get this

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Guide_to_X11/Starting_Sessions

Which is useful, but I don't think this is the context that you mean.  Are you referring to an X11 process on  top of wayland, or a client and child process of wayland?

I get very confused with terms like "session".  Linux has processes.  They can be light weights processes.  So session throws me for a loop.

https://www.baeldung.com/linux/process-vs-thread

Another such term that confuses me is "seat".... but I will leave that for a different thread.

I know this sounds very ignorant on my part, but I have been avoiding much of this client side layers for a long time, and intentionally, to the point now that I feel I am not even talking about the same OS or the same Tech Jargon.  It feels like the first thing the Free Desktop folks did was build a new language to justify (or describe to be more kind) their design decisions.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #7 –
Quote from: mrbrklyn – on
When I look up X11 Sessions I get this

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Guide_to_X11/Starting_Sessions

Which is useful, but I don't think this is the context that you mean.  Are you referring to an X11 process on  top of wayland, or a client and child process of wayland?

I get very confused with terms like "session".  Linux has processes.  They can be light weights processes.  So session throws me for a loop.

It's called a session because it runs from login to logout, I think it's a pretty apt name for it. And although wayland can spawn programs in x11 for compatibility purposes, this refers to x11 alone.



Quote from: Fox – on
Also, is it possible for the maintainers of Artix packages to change Wayland to an optional dependency by default? Perhaps that should be the standard. Especially in the case of Plasma.

Plasma has pretty much adopted wayland as the main display server in the past year or so, and besides if you're using something as "bloated" as plasma, I don't understand why you'd worry about the couple MB of disk space removing wayland would give you. As for me personally I've had 0 hickups with wayland, and the only reason I would use x11 is for DWM.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Dastard – on
It's called a session because it runs from login to logout, I think it's a pretty apt name for it. And although wayland can spawn programs in x11 for compatibility purposes, this refers to x11 alone.
But what if I login to a tty, do some stuff there, and only later 'startx'?
And X predates the term "session" in this meaning by some decades!

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #9 –
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Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Dastard – on
Plasma has pretty much adopted Wayland as the main display server in the past year or so, and besides if you're using something as "bloated" as plasma, I don't understand why you'd worry about the couple MB of disk space removing Wayland would give you. As for me personally I've had 0 hiccups with Wayland, and the only reason I would use x11 is for DWM.

Of course, you can use DWL if you want to stay on Wayland... DWL has a way to go to be on-par with DWM (IMHO, of course).
I managed to get it up and running but there are not enough patches (well, the ones I use anyways) and really don't want to invest time trying to convert/hack/whatever to get things working in Wayland with the patches I do use or created. Not even touching the apps I use.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #11 –
Quote from: lotuskip – on
But what if I login to a tty, do some stuff there, and only later 'startx'?
And X predates the term "session" in this meaning by some decades!

Then you have a waking session in which you started a system power on session which booted into a linux kernel session that let you start a x11 session that let you have a browser session during which you made this post. Noone argued that "session" was an x-related term, and I would advise against using a tech forum as a replacement for social interaction.


Quote from: cds – on
Of course, you can use DWL if you want to stay on Wayland... DWL has a way to go to be on-par with DWM (IMHO, of course).
I managed to get it up and running but there are not enough patches (well, the ones I use anyways) and really don't want to invest time trying to convert/hack/whatever to get things working in Wayland with the patches I do use or created. Not even touching the apps I use.

Oh cool, I hadn't heard of DWL, I'll give it a look. Though there's already some other quite popular and well supported window managers for wayland, I've heard a lot of praise for hyprland though I haven't played around with anything new recently.

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Dastard – on
Quote from: lotuskip – on
But what if I login to a tty, do some stuff there, and only later 'startx'?
And X predates the term "session" in this meaning by some decades!

Then you have a waking session in which you started a system power on session which booted into a linux kernel session that let you start a x11 session that let you have a browser session during which you made this post. Noone argued that "session" was an x-related term, and I would advise against using a tech forum as a replacement for social interaction.


Quote from: cds – on
Of course, you can use DWL if you want to stay on Wayland... DWL has a way to go to be on-par with DWM (IMHO, of course).
I managed to get it up and running but there are not enough patches (well, the ones I use anyways) and really don't want to invest time trying to convert/hack/whatever to get things working in Wayland with the patches I do use or created. Not even touching the apps I use.

Oh cool, I hadn't heard of DWL, I'll give it a look. Though there's already some other quite popular and well supported window managers for wayland, I've heard a lot of praise for hyprland though I haven't played around with anything new recently.

If you do try it out, note the version of wlroots you will use. Pair that with the proper version of DWL and you shouldn't  have issues compiling. Other than that, there isn't much more I can offer that are "gotchas"
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #13 –
Quote from: cds – on
Quote from: Dastard – on


Then you have a waking session in which you started a system power on session which booted into a linux kernel session that let you start a x11 session that let you have a browser session during which you made this post. Noone argued that "session" was an x-related term, and I would advise against using a tech forum as a replacement for social interaction.




Oh cool, I hadn't heard of DWL, I'll give it a look. Though there's already some other quite popular and well supported window managers for wayland, I've heard a lot of praise for hyprland though I haven't played around with anything new recently.

If you do try it out, note the version of wlroots you will use. Pair that with the proper version of DWL and you shouldn't  have issues compiling. Other than that, there isn't much more I can offer that are "gotchas"

I was using dwl on Arch before trying this new(old) xlibre stuff on Artix. Most patches work well with dwl 0.7 & wlroots 0.18.  It was pretty stable. Unless you need some specific new feature from wlroots 0.19, I'd suggest that you stay with the stable version (0.7 & 0.18).

Re: Make Wayland Stay Gone

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Dastard – on

It's called a session because it runs from login to logout, I think it's a pretty apt name for it. And although wayland can spawn programs in x11 for compatibility purposes, this refers to x11 alone.


People can make things up but this is technology where words have specific and exact meanings.  Linux does not have "session"s.  It has processes - heavy or light, which can be child processes or not.  It uses fork() and clone() and you can see the processes with the ps command or the pstree command.  Processes are sent to the scheduler to receive their share of time and share a memory stack which can be segregated and which is processed by a CPU which is a Newman machine.

None of which has the word "session".  So when the word session is used, I am confused to what you mean. 

I run several X server processes at the same time on different ttys, btw, for different work.

You are saying a session is a program that runs with login and ends with logout?  That doesn't even describe that X or Wayland does.  XDM or whatever greeting application you are running, is ran from the system as a service from the init.  A service is a process started by the init system which runs as a dameon.  So with a conventional graphics login, X or Wayland is running before you login and still runs upon exit.  If that is not correct, I am happen to be corrected.

https://tldp.org/LDP/tlk/kernel/processes.html